drclaw Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'd be melancholic too if the epitome of female beauty was the monobrow :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Dear Markus, since you've posted here a close-up of Queen Alexandra breast badge of the Aftab - maybe you have a close-up of a sash-badge from this photo too? Dear James, I've never heard Queen Victoria to receive any full-circle star of the Aftab! (It seems to me that the star was added to insignias of this Order a little bit later - not in 1873. Shah never mentioned the star of Aftab in his diary - just the badge). Is it possible to learn from somewhere how does it looks like - I mean, Queen Victoria's star? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Dear James, I've never heard Queen Victoria to receive any full-circle star of the Aftab! (It seems to me that the star was added to insignias of this Order a little bit later - not in 1873. Shah never mentioned the star of Aftab in his diary - just the badge). Is it possible to learn from somewhere how does it looks like - I mean, Queen Victoria's star? Please see: Stephen Patterson, Royal Insignia: British and Foreign Orders of Chivalry from the Royal Collection. Merrell Holberton Publishers Ltd, London, 1996. p 170. The author also quotes from Queen Victoria's Journal entry for 20th June 1873 in which she describes the investiture. She first mentions the bestowal of the Order of the Royal Portrait, then goes on to say "... the other is a new one istituted before the Shah left Persia (sic), for ladies, and is a very pretty Star and small badge, also in diamonds, the latter hanging from a pink silk watered ribbon bordered with green ..." A small picture of the Queen wearing all the insignia appears on p 168. She is definitely wearing a circular star. The description of the insignia received by Queen Mary in 1904 (or 1905?) is the same as that for Queen Victoria, a circular star. Queen Alexandra, howevr, received a semi-circular star with three diamond droplets as seems to br borne out in the picture posted earlier. Cheers, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Eh... It's a pity I have no access to this book. I know only two photos of Victoria in Persian decorations but they doesn't show any star. I've nothing to do but to believe Mr. Patterson's quotations from Victoria's diary. I don't this this photo on p.168 is one of these shots we discussed here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Eh... It's a pity I have no access to this book. I know only two photos of Victoria in Persian decorations but they doesn't show any star. I've nothing to do but to believe Mr. Patterson's quotations from Victoria's diary. I don't this this photo on p.168 is one of these shots we discussed here? There are several photographs taken at the same time at slightly different angles. I just also found this website article, but it is in Farsi. Nevertheless, if you scroll down to the bottom there is a colour scan of a part of a painting in the Golestan Palace of either Queen Elena of Italy or Queen Marie-Henriette of Belgium wearing the same circular star. http://qajar.wordpress.com/tag/%D9%85%D8%AF%D8%A7%D9%84-%D9%88-%D9%86%D8%B4%D8%A7%D9%86/ You can use Google translate or Bing translate to translate the text, but neither are very good so there can be confusion about what the text actually says. Cheers, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Oh, thanks, James! I could never imagine the small brooch under the Royal Portrait (on Victoria's neck) to be a star of Aftab. And if it is a right place for a star? Funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Oh, thanks, James! I could never imagine the small brooch under the Royal Portrait (on Victoria's neck) to be a star of Aftab. And if it is a right place for a star? Funny. If this is breast star of Aftab order then :speechless: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Nope. Never:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You are one distrustful fellow Mitya ... Have faith! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Mitya, Here is a closeup of Alexandra's sash badge. The detail doesn't show that much other than a star shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Here is a full body shot of Queen Alexandra that I tweaked and sharpened for maximum detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Oh, thanks, James! I could never imagine the small brooch under the Royal Portrait (on Victoria's neck) to be a star of Aftab. And if it is a right place for a star? Funny. Quite obviously I was NOT talking about that! I said "... SCROLL DOWN TO THE BOTTOM there is a colour scan of a part of a PAINTING in the Golestan Palace of either Queen ELENA of ITALY or Queen MARIE-HENRIETTE of BELGIUM..." Cheers James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Mitya, Here is a closeup of Alexandra's sash badge. The detail doesn't show that much other than a star shape. Markus, This blow-up of the sash badge is very, very interesting indeed. It is a different shape to anything we have seen of the Aftab anywhere else before. However, I do have a little creeping doubt as to what this 'item' could be. It does seem to be pinned on top of the bow of the sash, and indeed not in the middle either but considerably over to one side (the right). Normally, a sash badge would be suspended from the bow, and rest below it on the cross-over end of the sash. The way this is attached suggests that there is no suspension, but perhapaps a pin device on the back. More like a breast star than a sash badge. Finally, am I worng or are there too many ends to the sash? There appear to be two broard ends at the cross-over point, that are the same breadh as the sash, as one would expect. But then an additional set of narrower ribbons, apparently of the same colour scheme, on top and slightly to the right side. Could it be that we have here a second decoration which goes with the narrow ribbons, pinned over the bow of the regular bow of the Aftab sash??? Very curious. Cheers, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Note to Administrator. Could we please have a separation of the posts in this thread. The discussion seems to have strayed from the Order of the Lion and Sun to the Order of the Aftab. Thanks, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Hi James, Yes this Alexandra sash and Aftab medal is a puzzle! I think maybe the Aftab medal was personalized with tear drop ornaments on the bottom. In looking at other Queen Alexandra's Jewelry, she really likes the tear shaped pearl pendants dangling from her necklaces. As to the star shaped badge pinned to her sash, it looks more like a Lion and Sun medal rather than an Aftab star. Now as regards to who is playing administrator of this thread, that is a whole other question, Lorenzo used to be moderator of the Middle East & Arab States forum until he was banned from GMIC Markus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Dear James, you wrote: "A small picture of the Queen wearing all the insignia appears on p 168. She is definitely wearing a circular star" - so it seemed to me that your hyperlink to qajar.wordpress-site was an answer to my question if there are really any photo of Victoria with the star in the book - and what is this photo. You see, we (me and friends here) have never seen Victoria in any Persian circular star (that's why I shared my own opinion that the Aftab-star is an innovation added later - after the bestowal of the first Aftab-insignias in 1873). As for Elena of Montenegro (i.e. Italy:) - thanks for posting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitya Ivanov Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Dear Markus, thanks for satisfying of my annoyance about Queen Alexandra's close-up: oops and wow:) Have none ideas abot this at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Hi James, Yes this Alexandra sash and Aftab medal is a puzzle! I think maybe the Aftab medal was personalized with tear drop ornaments on the bottom. In looking at other Queen Alexandra's Jewelry, she really likes the tear shaped pearl pendants dangling from her necklaces. As to the star shaped badge pinned to her sash, it looks more like a Lion and Sun medal rather than an Aftab star. Markus, To me this star pinned to the sash is not like anything else I have seen before. The central medallion is unique and rises quite high from the base to the top. So I do not think there is any connection with the Lion and Sun. All in all this object would have been quite awkward to wear in the place where Queen Alexandra has placed it. Her lower arm would constantly be in danger of being cut by the sharp points of the star, while the sleeve of her dress would certainly catch everytime it brushed past. My considered conclusion is that this star is not meant to be worn there at all. Most probably it is meant to be worn on the upper breast or shoulder, perhaps in the same way as the Queen's VA and Edward VII Royal Family Order. Who knows, perhaps this particular decoration was made after the fashion of the diamond encrusted star of the Turkish Order of Iftikhar. Lady recipients wore the latter star from a small bow atached to the left shoulder or upper breast. Cheers, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Soltan Morad Mirza Hessam Salanech was a son of Crown Prince Abbas Mirza and famous for recapturing Herat in 1856. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Soltan Morad Mirza Hessam Salanech was a son of Crown Prince Abbas Mirza and famous for recapturing Herat in 1856. Interesting, high quality photo Markus! Thanks! By the way, all Morads lions are standing Cheers, Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Hoard Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Soltan Morad Mirza Hessam Salanech was a son of Crown Prince Abbas Mirza and famous for recapturing Herat in 1856. Markus, Looks like you have found another first. The second star, worn at the top in the north-east position nearest the arm appears to be entirely new to me. The central medalion looks like a military standing lion, but the star seems to have blunt enamelled arms that I have never seen before. Cheers, James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Markus, Looks like you have found another first. The second star, worn at the top in the north-east position nearest the arm appears to be entirely new to me. The central medalion looks like a military standing lion, but the star seems to have blunt enamelled arms that I have never seen before. Cheers, James Hi James, Good observation! I tried to sharpen the photo detail but the highlights are pretty blown out and I wasn't able to salvage any more detail. It does appear to be a Lion and Sun image with a most unusual shaped badge. Will probably remain a mystery medal! Markus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Cossack soldier with Lion and Sun medal. Dated 1930 on photo. The Persian Cossack Brigade was formed by Nasir al-Din Shah in 1879 using as a model the Caucasian Cossack regiments of the Imperial Russian Army, which had impressed him when travelling through southern Russia in 1878. Together with a Swedish officered and trained gendarmerie, the Cossack Brigade came to comprise the most effective military force available to the Iranian crown in the years prior to World War I. In spite of its name the Brigade was never a genuine cossack force. Neither did it have the status of a guard unit. Late nineteenth century photographs show that Russian style uniforms were worn, in contrast to the indigenous dress of other Persian forces at the time. The rank and file of the Brigade were always Persian but until 1917 its commanders were Russian officers who were also employed in the Russian army, such as V. Liakhov. Such secondments were encouraged by the Imperial Russian Government who saw the Cossack Brigade as a means of extending Russian influence in a key area of international rivalry. After the October Revolution in 1917, many of these Russian officers left the country to join the "White" forces. The command of the Persian Cossack Division was subsequently transferred to Iranian officers. Most notable among these officers was General Reza Khan, who started his military career as a private soldier in the Cossack Brigade and rose through its ranks to become a Brigadier General. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Cossack_Brigade Edited March 18, 2012 by Markus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 This is a portrait of Colonel Vladimir Platonvitch Liakhov, a Russian who was a commander of the Persian Cossack Brigade during the rule of Mohammad Ali Shah. He gained considerable notoriety after shelling the Majlis of Iran and executed several constitutionalist leaders on June 24, 1908. As a sign of gratitude, Mohammad Ali Shah appointed him as the military Governor of Tehran. Note the large Persian Effigy medal pinned to his neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Cossack soldier with Lion and Sun medal. Dated 1930 on photo. Nice photo mate! But actually this photo was signed (most likely) on June 30, 1909. In addition to 2nd class breast star of lion and sun order this handsome desperado has breast star of noble Bukhara order. And a HUGE watch on the left hand! Regards, Nick P.S. Almost finished the new thread completely devoted to Cossack brigade ;) Edited March 18, 2012 by JapanX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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