Greek Victory Medals

[johnnymac]

Hello Bill,

To clear up something, I am not personally reclassifying the Un-official type 1, as a Official type 2. What I am saying is I that think it may have been wrongly classified in 1992 by Laslo. But until it can be proven or published with all facts to support it, it stands as it is - an un-official type1.

Just remember there was no book or classification card that Laslo could refer back to. So he used what he felt would most accurately describe his medals. All this is based on his life long notes and the dealings he had with other collectors.

Regards, Jim M.

[johnnymac]

Bill, the medal on ebay you listed, "to me" is a Official type 1, which if I needed type 1 Greek for my collection, I personally would make a bid on it.

[Bilco]

Hi Jim,

Many thanks for clearing that up - I do need to have these things bludgeoned into my head with a large mallet these days .....

Many thanks, too, for your opinion of the vic on e-bay.

Bill

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

Just for a laugh I enlarged the photo of the top of the reverse of my Greek vic -

- and I can convince myself that those marks I keep harping on about are isosceles triangles - and what's more, I seem to see in the right-hand one a letter M. Could it be that they are maker's marks, or the mark of the die sinker?

Then I found on the dreaded e-bay someone selling a copy of the Official Greek vic - http://www.ebay.co.u...=item43ac8c0175 - and I'm sure I can see on the enlarged photo of the reverse the marks again! It's said to be 'die cast' - I suppose, if you are very good at making a mould from a genuine original, the casting will show every mark ....

Bill

Edited January 14, 2012 by Bilco

[johnnymac]

On the item which you pointed out as selling on ebay. Look at the color of the metal it is one of the easier fake's to find, which should be very helpful to any one checking your posting. http://www.ebay.co.u...=item43ac8c0175

As far as the finish on the official Greek medal, it may all go back to how much money Greece had to spend for this medal after a very costly war.

Edited January 15, 2012 by johnnymac

[Bilco]

Hi Jim,

Your're absolutely right - the copy I posted the link to is totally the wrong colour, and should easily be spotted as a fake. It's a bit scary how accurate the casting is, though!

I took these photos from the web site of a dealer here in England, Medal-Medaille - http://www.medal-med...&sort=2a&page=2

The top two sets of obverse/reverse are both said to be Official type, while the bottom set are Unofficial Type 2. The middle medal is the same as the one on e-bay I posted - http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1438.l2649

There are differences between the top two sets. On the obverse, the rim is more regular and well-defined on the middle set ; both are wider than the Unofficial. Also, the lower garland in the 3 o'clock is sharper. On the reverse, the rim is again more well-defined in the middle set, more akin to the Unofficial. Also, the bottom corners of the tablet with the names of the combattants are different in each set; on the top set they are thick and merge into the rim, on the middle set they are sharp and distinct, while on the bottom set they are thick and distinct. Another difference between the top two sets is that the ribbed cylinder in the suspension is split in the middle set and not in the top set.

It seems to me that the top two sets are made from different dies. There are also differences in the colour of the metal of the planchet, though this may be due in part to the lighting under which the photograph was taken. So, are those top two both Official types made from different dies, or is the middle one a Reissue, rather like the French Morlon reissue, which is in a brighter metal, or is the middle one a Reproduction? Or am I getting a bit obsessive about these things?

Bill

Edited January 16, 2012 by Bilco

[johnnymac]

No you are not getting obsessive, The middle one is a fake plain and simple!

To me this medal is not - A "re" production of the original item put out by the original people or factory, nor is it a second production of that item. If it was "marked" as a reproduction by the new maker than it is a reproduction. But when it is sold not as a reproduction, but was sold as an original and was made to look like an original medal then it is a "fake" with the sole intention of fool you out money.

[Bilco]

Many thanks, Jim. Now I'll get a glass of red wine, sit back, and chill out!

Bill

[Bilco]

I see that medal on e-bay didn't sell. The starting price was £100, which probably didn't help, or maybe people had doubts about it ...

Just for the sake of completeness I compared the Official Type to my Unofficial Type 1

There are some detail differences in the rim on obverse and reverse, but the bottom corners of the tablet on the reverse look very similar, and both have those two triangles on the rim of the reverse.

Bill

[lambert]

Hi Bill,

I do not, apparently, nothing wrong with the medal Type 1, the image doesn't help much but seems this Ok. The price also does not scare me, I've seen more expensive.

Lambert

[lambert]

The seller put back on sale.

with an attractive price.

http://www.ebay.co.u...4#ht_500wt_1287

:beer:

Edited January 19, 2012 by lambert

[johnnymac]

To me either price for this Original type 1, is good. I have three and i paid more than either (75 -100) price.

[Bilco]

I see the medal on eBay was sold with just one bid, placed at the last minute.

Oh well, I've got an Offical Type coming from another source - I'll posts photos when it arrives.

Bill

[RobW]

To all,

Here is a relative close-up of an official Greek vic, sans ribbon. This should aid others in identifying distinguishing features.

Regards,

Rob

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

My Greek Official Type (or Type 1) arrived today. As promised, here are the photos:

Obverse:

Reverse:

In reality it's closer to the colour of Rob's in the last post, but I took the photos in poor artificial light, so had to bring them up a bit.

Any comments welcome.

Bill

Edited January 31, 2012 by Bilco

[lambert]

Hi Bill

Very good! is in excellent condition. To demonstrate the color correctly, I suggest using a scanner to scan the image, is 100% correct.

I'm awaiting the arrival of some Vic in my collection:

A Vic Portugual, Italy and finally USA.

Lambert

Edited January 31, 2012 by lambert

[RobW]

Hi Gents,

My Greek Official Type (or Type 1) arrived today. As promised, here are the photos:

In reality it's closer to the colour of Rob's in the last post, but I took the photos in poor artificial light, so had to bring them up a bit.

Any comments welcome.

Bill

Hello Bill,

A nice example with a good level of patina and little wear. Does the top of the ribbon have holes for what would be a pin type suspender? I note that this example also has the small triangle marks in the same position on the reverse.

Regards,

Rob

Edited February 1, 2012 by RobW

[Bilco]

Many thanks for the comments, gents. It's always good to get a positive reaction to a newly-acquired item!

Lambert - thanks for the tip about the scanner - I'll give it a try. I envy you getting a Portugal vic - maybe one day.

Rob - the ribbon is in very good condition, almost new-looking. It's quite short behind the fold, and there is no sign of any holes it it for the pin mounting. Yep - triangles present and correct!

Bill

[johnnymac]

There seems to be several sand casted Vic's medal for sale on ebay by same dealer, check them and see if you agree? They are not marked as modern reproductions - Feb 1, 2012

Italian Item number: 250985646621

Greek Item number: 250985650285

Cuban Item number: 260946754425

[Bilco]

Hi Jim,

Yes, the Greek vic he's offering looks to be a very poor casting - very pitted, as they all are. And a very strange ribbed ring in the suspension. I see he has 4 vics offered in total, including the Siam version.

Bill

[johnnymac]

I have noticed this bidder, bids on a lot of things. When he sets his mine to the fact that he wants it, he put a very high number so matter what you bid you will lost. He just won all four items and all four are sand casted items?

1. Cuban sand casting = $236.50 item # 260946754425

2. Greek sand casting = $224.50 item #250985650285

3. Italian sand casting = $52.02 item #250985646621

4. Siam sand casting $235.95 ( the sand cast was of the repro medal not the original one). item #250985637512

I post this to say to all members if you need help in ID-ing something reach out to one of the many forum members for a second opinion by sending them a email.

[RobW]

Yes, the Greek vic he's offering looks to be a very poor casting - very pitted, as they all are. And a very strange ribbed ring in the suspension.

Bill

Hello Bill,

The French firm of M. Delande (Paris) produced reproductions, including cast copies, of all the vic series. This was during the late 1920s and early 1930s timeframe.

Regards,

Rob

Edited February 22, 2012 by RobW

[lambert]

Hello All.

I have some photos of my vic Greek, I got with the help of a great collaborated this Forum.

The original ribbon was "retired" because it was very fragile, and was replaced.

Not sure, but I believe that this ribbon is Belgian, remained so until I got a French ribbon.

[lambert]

close.

Lambert

Edited March 30, 2012 by lambert

[Bilco]

Hi Lambert,

A nice example of the Greek Official Type - a good one to get. I'm curious about your source of replacement ribbon - are you re-using one from another medal, or is it a new piece?

Bill