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Hello Bill, To clear up something, I am not personally reclassifying the Un-official type 1, as a Official type 2. What I am saying is I that think it may have been wrongly classified in 1992 by L

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To all,

A Greece vic, unofficial type 2, in dark bronze. Diameter is 36.7 mm. Specimens have also been seen in a gilt finish.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW
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  • 4 months later...

To all,

Here is an official Greek vic with the original French ribbon. It was produced by the Paris firm of Victor Canale. The Henry NOCQ designers mark is just noticeable on the lower left of the obverse rim.

The original ribbon is particularly fragile and often falls to pieces if handled too much. If you can obtain a specimen with this type of ribbon; do so as even the Greek collectors have indicated that they have had to revert to the more commonly seen French ribbon off the French vic. The ribbon is also seen with the standard two pin attachment on the back but in this case it is gone. The pins were long enough to scratch and mark the reverse of the medal and so were often removed.

It was delivered in a plain cardboard and green pasted paper box with the V. Canale firm stamp on the inside lid.

This example has a slight two-tone appearance and patina which, to my mind, adds to the character.

Pics of the box to follow.

Regards,

Rob

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And here are the box pics. The cardboard boxes are not very robust and have a habit of breaking. Note the V. Canale marking on the inside of the box lid.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW
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  • 4 months later...

... I have finally tracked down an affordable Greek full size medal - to my mind the more stunning clasp set up of the lot.

regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

I would agree that the clasp suspender is both unusual and interesting design. It is also unusual because many similar Greek campaign medals of the era were suspended by a thick wire, crown or straight bar suspender.

Here is a close up of the suspender from one of my Greek unofficial type 2 varieties. It is a bit different from the official and other unofficial types having a slightly narrower suspender base.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW
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Rob, my Greek Victory's clasp seems to be of a different metal ... it is tubular and has no join like yours does. I hope not a problem ... ?

Hello Thomas,

There is no problem with yours. As I mentioned the suspender ring for the unofficial type 2, was different to that as seen on the other official, and unofficial type 1 and 3 Greek vic. Yours is fine.

I have attached a close-up of the suspender of one of my official Greek vics for you to compare. In this case it has the original French produced ribbon still attached which is particularly fragile and has a habit of fraying. Even among the official examples there are small variations in the minute detail but that is to be expected.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW
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Rob, my Greek Victory's clasp seems to be of a different metal ... it is tubular and has no join like yours does. I hope not a problem ... ?



Thomas,

Your Greek VIC looks very nice! :cheers: The suspension on yours is the same style I have on my VIC. No problems.
Tim

Edited by IrishGunner
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  • 1 month later...

To all,

Thanks to a very helpful collector friend in Greece and a fellow forum member, I have now obtained this very nice group.

It is an interesting group because it also includes the Cross of Valor which indicates post-war service in the Asia Minor 1919-1922 conflict between Greece and Turkey, as well an unofficial victory medal.

The items, with manufacturing details, include:

* Order of the Redeemer, Knight's Cross (Lemaitre)

* Cross of Valor, (Godet)

* Order of George I, Knight's Cross (R. Souval)

* War Cross, 3rd class (Huguenin Frères)

* Military Merit Medal 3rd class (Sue-Rivaud, Salonique)

* Victory medal, unofficial type 1 (HENRY NOCQ variation)

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW
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Hello Rob -

Do you know who it belonged to, but if I am to gauge anything about the contributors to this thread it would seem to be more about the individual pieces and their manufacturers, rather than the recipient's details perhaps ?

I would also imagine that these types of medal groups are becoming thin on the ground - maybe due to being split up and sold off as single medals?

I ditto JM, - a very nice group indeed.

regards

Thomas

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Hello Rob -

Do you know who it belonged to, but if I am to gauge anything about the contributors to this thread it would seem to be more about the individual pieces and their manufacturers, rather than the recipient's details perhaps ?

I would also imagine that these types of medal groups are becoming thin on the ground - maybe due to being split up and sold off as single medals?

regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas,

I don't know who the recipient is, but the combination of awards as well as the two Orders, indicates an officer.

The main research problem that faces collectors of vics generally is that only the commonwealth countries had their medals named, although there are examples of US vics with naming details engraved. As the main thread is vic medals of the world this is the only spot for the variety of other vics to reside, and there are just so many different varieties that are all unnamed so there is a tendency to post the items and their varieties. You will also see that there are not a lot of contributors but many watchers on this thread.

If you have any commonwealth vics I would post them here and also on the Great Britain thread where it is more easy to research the named individual.

You are also correct in identifying that these sort of groups are rarely seen intact anymore. I am currently working on resurrecting a Greek group of 9 that was split apart and individually mounted on a felt board with glue all over the ribbons! What a poor demise for such a group. It may take me a long time to obtain all the required original silk ribbons but it remains a work in progress and it will eventually be re-mounted complete. I have seen dealers that will split a large group if it fails to sell in a rapid time frame and then sell it later for the sum of the parts.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW
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Hello Rob!

Based on the awards of this group, it probably belonged to a Captain or a Major, having gratuated from the Officers' Academy after 1913, who saw action in:

-WWI

-Probably expedition in Ukraine (1919)

-Minor Asian Campaign

The reasons, in my opinion, why we don't find Greek medal bars often are:

-Sometimes the Officers and NCOs did not fix the medals together. I often find groups belonging even to high ranking officers, which are completely unmounted.

-Even nowadays, families prefer to keep the medals of their ancestors and they are rarely being sold.

-Many more decorations have been lost/destroyed during the long period of wars and conflicts in the modern greek history.

Another interesting WWI bar that you can find in this page is under "Canada", including Order of Canada and some other Canadian and Greek awards. It obviously belonged to a Greek who, after serving his duty in the late 1910s, immigrated to Canada and became an important contributor of the social and political life there.

Makedon

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  • 1 year later...

To all,

Here is a Greek vic mini. It is 18.5 mm in diameter yet it has such detail. It is hard to tell by the picture but there is such a good level of detail especially in the face of victory on the obverse and the raised plinth on the reverse.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW
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Hello Lambert,

Aside from the dark bronze variety displayed here Greek vic mini's have also seen in silvered and gilt finish versions. They are rarely seen by themselves and just as rarely in groups. I have seen a number of Greek mini groups from World War 2 but only two from the Great War.

They are difficult to find let alone obtain.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW
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To assist others,

Here is a nice Greek navy mini group, showing service in both the Great War and WW2 as well as the vic with a gilt finish.

This picture was illustrated on page 93 of the book 'Greek Medals' by George Stratoudakis, self-published, 2001.

Regards,

Rob

Edited by RobW
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  • 1 month later...

Hi Gents,

My latest acquisition - the Greek Unofficial Type 1, with 'HENRY NOCQ' incised inside the rim of the obverse. Diameter is 36.8mm

GreekVic01-crop.jpg

Obverse

GreekVic02-crop.jpg

Reverse.

The obligatory close-ups:

GreekVic01-crop02.jpg

Obverse

GreekVic02-crop02.jpg

Reverse

The medal came with the cardboard box it was issued in:

GreekVic03-crop.jpg

Outside

GreekVic04-crop.jpg

Inside, showing the stamp of V Canale.

How many of these were made, compared with the Official version - how does it compare in rarity and desirability, and what effect does this have on the pricing?

Any comments welcome

Bill

Edited by Bilco
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Hi Bill, Great Photos,

I believe there is strong evindence that this medal might just be a official type 2 and not a unofficial type 1.

This medal you listed is in Laslo's book as an un-official type 1, but I don't feel that this medal is a un-official type 1. The internet has had a drastic impact on culture and commerce, including the rise of near-instant communication. This tool the internet was not available to Laslo 1992.

I believe there is strong evindence that this medal might just be a official type 2 and not a un-official type 1. Starting off with your box as just one of several reasons. Over the years I have seen five other medals of this type, the un-official type 1 in the same marked box. This box I know was used for the official type 1 medal.

Laslo's un-official type 1, are hard to find, but if it proven to be the official type 2 , then it may be a higher value than the official type 1.

Edited by johnnymac
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Hi Jim,

Many thanks for your very interesting comments on this medal. A 'new' Official Type would really be something!

Maybe of interest - in the close-up of the reverse there are two marks on the rim at the 1 o'clock and 11 o'clock. In a thread in the Greece section there are photos of two Official Types http://gmic.co.uk/in...-victory-medal/ and the photos of the reverses there appear to show the same marks. Could they be flaws in the die, and would this indicate that Darrel's and Tim's Official Types and my medal were all struck from the same dies?

Bill

Edited by Bilco
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Hi Bill.

Johny is right. This is the Medal of the type 2 (official)

This is the information I know.

manufacturing variations.

Type 1 (official form) is named after the sculptor Henry NOCQ the edge of the obverse.

Type 2: As above, distinguished by different signature of the sculptor, HENRY NOCQ (name in capital letters), placed above the edge of the obverse.

Type 3: Details different, especially in the ring of the ribbon. This model does not contain the signature of the sculptor.

Type 4: Manufacture Huguenin. This model does not contain the signature of the sculptor.

Lambert

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Hi Lambert,

Thanks for your posts. I guess your Type 3 is the 'No-O' on the reverse type. This reclassification that you and Jim describe is all new to me. Is it going to be generally recognized?

The photo you posted also seems to show the marks in the rim of the reverse that I mentioned, and I've been looking at photos of the Greek vic posted in the original Interallied Victory Medals thread, and they all seem to have them, too. Do other members' examples have them?

I've also been looking at an Official Type (or Type 1) that's offered on e-bay - http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1438.l2649 - and it seems to have some differences to the reverse from the norm. For a start, I don't think it has the two marks on the rim, but also the tablet bearing the names of the combattants seems to differ at the corners from all the others of this type that I've seen, particularly on the lower right. It has 'Henri NOCQ' on the obverse in the correct position. I'd welcome any comments on this.

Bill

Edited by Bilco
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