Thai/Siamese Victory Medals

[Bilco]

It looks go to me Rob. My 'tell' is the fineness of the fingers, particularly the forefinger of the hand holding the baton.

Bill

[sumserbrown]

Hi Bill,

thanks again for the reply (don't seem to be many of us on these interallied victory medal fora at the moment!). It looks good to me, but always great to have a second opinion. What surprised me when I took this out of its wallet was how light it was compared to most of the other victory medals, but when I looked it up in Laslo after, he says exactly the same thing and this was extra reassuring. I bought this medal almost 12 years ago from a dealer in Bangkok who assured me it was genuine and thankfully he was right as this was the last of the series for me to obtain and it was very expensive!

cheers

Rob

[graham]

sumserbrown, I agree with Bill. It looks fine to me as well(the forefinger protruding from the baton, the bottom of the baton and the headdress all look ok) and it looks in in very good condition. Great purchase, very hard to find. I would love to have one myself.

[sumserbrown]

Hi Graham,

if you want I can let you have the abomination I used as a placeholder until I managed to buy the real one. It's a hideous modern piece I think from the UK, but it lets you pretend you have that elusive and expensive Siam medal (if you squint hard enough) ?

best wishes

Rob

[graham]

sumserbrown,

I appreciate the offer?!!! I would not want to disturb it from its prominent placeholder position?!!!!

 

 

[ThaiDave]

HI All

 

Here are examples of 3 fakes and 1 genuine sold by a well known dealer.  Unfortunately all were advertised as genuine.  The dealer of course knew the fakes were not genuine, as the pricing was totally different.

 

Cheers

 

 

pics of copy 1 - covered ear (Laslo "Repro Type 1")

 

 

 

pics of copy 2 - also covered ear (Laslo "Repro Type 1") - very similar to the above

 

 

[ThaiDave]

 

 

pics of copy 3 -  seems to be one of the $30 "museum" copies coming from UK

 

 

 

1 out of 4 was really genuine ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by ThaiDave
split items

[ThaiDave]

Hi All

 

Here is a "covered ear" "repro" from a European auction house some time back.  The dealer was advised in advance, but sold as genuine anyway.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

[RobW]

On 10/04/2021 at 00:10, ThaiDave said:

Hi All

 

Here is a "covered ear" "repro" from a European auction house some time back.  The dealer was advised in advance, but sold as genuine anyway.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello ThaiDave,

 

The Europeans are certainly not the only ones who have clear fakes/repro's in their auction catalogues that fail to amend their listings after being informed. I suppose when there is money to be made and ignorance can be claimed then some vendors will proceed regardless of the longer term impacts to their credibility/reputation.

 

As long as the Siam vics are as rare and/or as expensive, we will continue to see this.

 

Regards,

Rob

[Geof]

A collector friend of mine recently passed away and over the weekend I purchased his InterAllied medal collection from his estate. I am just now going through it and everything seems fine but I wanted your thoughts on this Siam since it's the rarest one he had (no Brazil sorry).

[Geof]

[archie777]

Hi Geof,

 

Beautiful medal.

 

Great find, well done.

 

Regards

Archie

[Geof]

You think its good Archie? I was concerned about the lack of detail where the ear should be, the shapes of some of the fingers and the birds forehead. I'm afraid of these things once they get to the rare ones and I thought it looked a bit like a Laslo Type 1 Reproduction.

[archie777]

Hi Geof,

 

You're right, its definitely a reproduction.

 

Its really a beauty to get. Strong to get a legit one

 

Regards

Archie

[Geof]

Thanks Archie. Yeah it is a swine to get and I foolishly assumed that since he bought it from a well known UK company and was no fool himself that it would be good. I received the 20 medals over the weekend and started on checking them all. I began with this one since it is the rarest and saw issues with the type photos in both books I have. Uggh what a ruin of a perfect day!

[RobW]

Hello Geof,

 

Don't be too despondent. It is still a nice repro. As has been highlighted on the particular sub-thread the Siam and Brazil vics are probably the most difficult of the official strikes to obtain; in good condition. There are some of the repro's that are very hard to find but as far as official strikes are concerned most people's collection are missing those two.

 

Having a repro is the next best thing and yours is in good condition, with no edge knocks, defects, dents or verdigris so that in itself is a bonus. It also has the correct to type French produced ribbon.

 

A nice placeholder until you can get eventually obtain an official strike. Even if you do manage to get an official strike the repro's are handy to use as reference pieces as well.

 

Regards,
Rob

[sumserbrown]

This is a genuine Siam medal for comparison

best wishes,

Rob

 

and close up

 

[ThaiDave]

Hi All

 

Here is a recent ebay listing for a cast example.  The quality is nice. Maybe this is one of the early French versions ?  (sideways pic the SIAM medal is not edge marked - was compared to Cuba medal for thickness)

 

Sadly, the seller listed at $4000. And took offline before the end of the auction.  Presumably someone bought for highly inflated price...

 

The seller bought it from ebay UK for GDP15 (plus shipping) 3 weeks ago, and relisted on ebay USA.

 

Cheers

SIAM WWI Victory Medal EXTREMELY RARE! _ eBay sold.pdf

[RobW]

Hello Dave,

 

Yes; a very nice example indeed. I would concur that it is likely to be a French repro as the detail and production values are very good.

 

Regards,

Rob

[sumserbrown]

How much do we think a genuine Siam original striking victory medal is worth these days?

 

 

[Jean-Michel]

Hello,

The last one that was sold at auction in France went for €1525 including fees.

Sincerely,

Jean-Michel

[sumserbrown]

On 06/10/2024 at 17:59, Jean-Michel said:

Hello,

The last one that was sold at auction in France went for €1525 including fees.

Sincerely,

Jean-Michel

Thanks Jean-Michel,

that price seems very cheap. If the medal was genuine then I think  the buyer got a bargain.....

Rob

 

[Jean-Michel]

Hello Rob,

 

I was at the sale and I was able to have this medal in my hands. It was a very good copy and I hesitated to buy it. The prices of victory medals have fallen a lot in France. Sometimes in some auction rooms the prices soar for common copies, why? I have also seen copies sell for very high prices even though I had indicated it to the expert! There are real experts and those who run after the commission. I follow the auctions at Spink, the prices are often high or very high because of taxes because the United Kingdom is no longer part of the European Union. On the other hand, it is a very serious house.

 

The SIAM victory medal is rare but not exceptional. For me the prices are between €1500 and €1700. On the other hand, for a first-class Brazilian it is another matter! The last one I saw sold went for £2300 without fees and without the bail, just the token!

 

For me in the order of prices I would say first the Brazilian of the first type, then the Portuguese of the first type then the Siam and the Brazilian of the second type. The Greek of manufacture "HUGUENIN" must also cost a small note.

 

Kind regards,
Jean-Michel

[RobW]

On 04/10/2024 at 04:25, sumserbrown said:

How much do we think a genuine Siam original striking victory medal is worth these days?

 

 

 

Hi Rob,

 

That in itself is a vexing question as it really is determined by what a collector is willing to spend to obtain the piece. General mintage figures of the vic series are well known so that is a measurable metric in regards scarcity but the larger question has always been availability in the market and not scarcity.

 

The Siam vic and Brazil vic are often described as the most difficult to obtain and maybe the tyranny of distance from major commercial marketplaces is a factor.

 

I would be hesitant to profer a price as per the reasoing in the first paragraph. The more salient point is determining authenticity of any piece and once confirmed as a 'genuine' article (aided by knowledge, books, and hi-res pictures of known good examples) it is then up to the individual collectors as to what their budget is, and how committed they are to obtaining a piece.

 

It also depends on whether or not the piece is either the start or end of a collection.

 

I, for one, no longer collect the pieces as my collection is complete but there is always someone out their in the vic collecting arena that has holes in their collections to fill.

 

Regards,

Rob

 

On 15/10/2024 at 00:29, Jean-Michel said:

Hello Rob,

 

The SIAM victory medal is rare but not exceptional. For me the prices are between €1500 and €1700. On the other hand, for a first-class Brazilian it is another matter! The last one I saw sold went for £2300 without fees and without the bail, just the token!

 

For me in the order of prices I would say first the Brazilian of the first type, then the Portuguese of the first type then the Siam and the Brazilian of the second type. The Greek of manufacture "HUGUENIN" must also cost a small note.

 

Kind regards,
Jean-Michel

 

Hello Jean-Michel,

 

I would agree and concur that the rarer examples are the Brazilian (type 1), Portugal (type 1) and then the Siam strikes.

 

The Huguenin greek variety is very difficult to obtain. It took me many years to accurately identify and then obtain such an example. Not seen often at all.

 

Regards,
Rob

[Jean-Michel]

Hello Rob,

 

I completely agree with your analysis, concerning the HUGUENIN model for many years I believed that it did not exist. To this day, I have only seen fakes.

 

In addition, the HUGUENIN house was bought and the new owner told me that he no longer had any archives. The same goes for the Greek diploma, it is also very hard to find, certainly the most difficult!

 

Kind regards,

 

Jean-Michel