Thai/Siamese Victory Medals

[lambert]

Hi Gents

again around an excellent example of VIC Siam, has not sold ..

maybe one day...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIAM-THAILAND-WWI-VICTORY-MEDAL-1918-INTERALLIES-ORIGINAL-W-RIBBON-SUPERB-/121658183482?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c53648f3a

 

[RobW]

Hi Lambert,

This is, indeed, a very nice example. Clean lines, with very little wear. A good example for those vic collectors with the money to fill the gap in their collection.

It is suspended from the Great Britian variety of ribbon so that would need to be replaced with the French variety of ribbon to make it a bit more correct to type.

Examples in this condition do not turn up that often.

Regards,
Rob

[ThaiDave]

Hi All,

Another copy example just finished somewhat steeply on ebay at 280 GBP: http://www.ebay.com/itm/THAILAND-VICTORY-MEDAL-WW1-ORDER-OR-MEDAL-IN-VGC-/181834886011? (see auction pdf attached, and medal pictures below)

It seems to be the same striking, or its copy, of a copy previously sold in the UK (many were previously sold on ebay advertised as "museum copy"), but this today is a better example. See the hand details below for comparison.

Rgds,
Dave

2015 08 18 Thailand Victory Medal WW1 Order or Medal in VGC _ eBay.pdf

[paul wood]

Dave thanks for showing, better than many I've seen but still obviously wrong at a considerably lower price it would be a useful space filler.

Paul

 

[lambert]

Hi Dave, Thanks

Certainly a copy of another copy...

Tell a sad story to get money .. 

 

 

Lambert

 

 

[Tim B]

I agree with Paul here and actually find the one shown in post #78 still rather crude looking.

If I was so inclined to add a space filler, I think I would just add a cheaper version for a tenth of the price as they are readily available on Ebay.  I cannot understand why people continue to spend good money on fakes as it only continues the demand for such items and someone certainly spent a good amount here.  A fake is still a fake in my book.

Tim

[ThaiDave]

Tim,

In post 78, the one in dark brown is the one from the ebay auction.  The comparison example, in lighter brown closeup only, was previously being sold on ebay from UK as a "museum copy" about $25 .  (My explanation was probably not clear enough above.)

The reason the prices get so high, is that people believe they are genuine.  They are not filling a space for more than $300 when there are better copies for only $50 and space fillers for $25...

For a cheaper copy, there is one US seller always selling them for about $50 each. He has them made in Thailand. They are then aged.  The seller identifies them as reproductions, but following sellers don't. These are more dangerous due to the aging, and sometimes people feel they are genuine or "local made" contemporary strikes.

There is another seller, Mike Shank, who is selling a whole fake line of Inter-allied Victory medals, including Siam, Cuba, Brazil, and all the others, plus fake US bars.  Plus lots of other fake medals and patches.  He used to get about $600 for the fake Siam, but as he got outed, this dropped now to $175 which doesn't always sell.  He claimed that he didn't know how old they were and that they came from the SOS show in the us - bunk of course.  This version is poor, and is marked "BRONZE" on the edge.  He has changed his ebay name some times, now using mcstls.  (See for example all these fakes just sold: http://www.ebay.com/sch/mcstls/m.html?item=221812633964&nma=true&hash=item33a510316c&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&orig_cvip=true&si=KFT2p7FAX%2F8qE5Vem0TMogOSfqk%3D&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684 (PDF attached for future reference)  These fakes have been selling for years, so there must be hundreds of all of types of these fakes out there...

There are a couple UK sellers of copies which appear from time to time, but are cheaper and even more rough (one attached = $25).

See current ebay auctions (Links below and PDF attached and picture below):

UK Copy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/MEDALS-WW1-SIAM-VICTORY-MEDAL-1914-18-FULL-SIZE-/141669026574?hash=item20fc21cb0e

UK Copy - aka Museum Copy: http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-COPY-of-the-WWI-Victory-Medal-for-SIAM-/121714491123?hash=item1c56bfbef3

US Reproduction: http://www.ebay.com/itm/b0070-WWI-Victory-Medal-Siam-Thailand-/381322844880?hash=item58c89cdad0

Mike Shank Fake: http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWI-Siam-Victory-Medal-Siam-Thailand-/221812633964?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33a510316c&nma=true&si=KFT2p7FAX%2F8qE5Vem0TMogOSfqk%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Then there are the copies listed in Laso:

Reproduction 1 - was made by Ernst Blass sometime back (maybe people remember when they first started seeing these ?).  Liverpool medals for example has many of these (but used to only list a couple on their website - today I don't see them however).

Reproduction 2 (type with "covered ear") - not sure where it was made.  (maybe anyone know the history of this one ?)

Rgds,

Dave

UK Copy - Medals WW1 Siam Victory Medal 1914 18 Full Size _ eBay.pdf

UK Copy - aka Musuem Copy - A Copy of The WWI Victory Medal for Siam _ eBay.pdf

US Reproduction - B0070 WWI Victory Medal Siam Thailand _ eBay.pdf

Mike Shank Copy - WWI Siam Victory Medal Siam Thailand _ eBay.pdf

Latest Mike Shank Fake sales - mcstls _ eBay.pdf

[Tim B]

Hello Dave,

Yes, I understood, I only mentioned the point of those still willing to shell out good money for fakes.  See it all the time in other areas, a German RK being one prime example.  The "thought" being, I can't afford an original that commands in excess of $5000. for a decent example but am willing to spend $300. to $500. on a fake!  I just do not understand the mentality, nor the desire to add a fake to a legitimate collection.

Yes, Mike and George Shank have been at this for sometime now and I don't see any end to it.  As you noted, once those items get passed to someone else, they eventually show up again for sale as originals.  I've seen a particular seller that moved a couple recently and one of his Cuban's was an outright (Shank) fake that was listed as "later production".  Troubling to say the least.

Tim

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

Well, after selling off all sorts of bits and pieces I managed to amass enough cash to contact the seller of the medal in Lambert's post (#76 above) with a proposal. After a little negotiation we agreed a price, and I'm now the proud owner of the medal!

As Rob suggested in post #77, I've replaced the rather moth-eaten ribbon with an original piece of French ribbon. The ribbon the medal came with was very stiff and quite rotten - it disintegrated when I tried to remove it. The planchet is a beautiful piece of workmanship - I can gaze at it under the magnifier for hours, picking out the details.

So, photos with the replacement ribbon:

 

obverse

 

Reverse.

 

As you can see, the replacement ribbon isn't pristine - it's rather faded on the inner side, and worn on the reverse - but I hope you'll agree, it looks a bit better than the piece that came with the medal - which I've saved.

 

Now, what can I sell to afford a Brazil vic ....

 

Bill

 

[RobW]

Hello Bill,

A nice pick up of the Siam vic in good condition.  As you have indicated the fineness of the strike is something that pictures can simply not do justice to.  Such a piece has to viewed under a loop or magnifier to see the detail.

Have fun finding your Brazil vic.  There are a number on the market but the prices generally are pretty high as well.

Regards,
Rob

[lambert]

Hello Bill.
I am very very very happy you finally buy the Vic Sian.

Inda something a bit far for me. But let's go.

Cheers

Lambert

 

 

[Tim B]

Bill,

Again, congrats!!

Tim

[lambert]

Attention a genuine Vic Siam sale on Ebay ..
good pictures for reference .. after all the price is too high.

Cheers

Lambert

[macchianera72]

Hello to all,
What do you think of my last purchase?
is an original?
thank's,

Claudio from Italy,

[paul wood]

Really need a close up of the head, especially the area around the ear to be absolutely certain.

Paul

[lambert]

Hello  Claudio ..

You could show more photos ??

 

Lambert

[Bilco]

Claudio - have you checked it against the photos on page 2 of this thread. Posts #31 onwards have a lot of stuff about the Siam vic.

Bill

[macchianera72]

[ThaiDave]

Hi Macchianera72,

A little worn, but looks like a genuine example.  You can see the fine detail, and compare for example with the other copies in earlier parts of the the thread.

Rgds

Dave

Edited October 14, 2016 by ThaiDave
added more info

[macchianera72]

Paul, Lambert, Bilco and Dave, Thank You,

This is the reverse...

[lambert]

I agree with everyone, it is an example genuine.

This is his first medal of Victory you bought?

All the best

Lambert

from Brazil

Edited October 15, 2016 by lambert

[macchianera72]

Hallo Lambert,

this is not the first 
I have many Interallied Victory Medals,  but for the first time I have one of Siam in my hands,
I'm looking for 4 medals:
1) The issue of South Africa bilingual without mark
2) U.S. Victory Medal with "Beveled Lug" suspension device
3) Italian Victory Medals unofficial (rare types)
4) The Brasilian Victory Medal
...and few other unofficial types

Kind Regards

Claudio,  from Italy

[oliver860]

Hi, gentlemen!

Forgery expensive medals will always tempt a variety of scams! Since the manufacture of counterfeit technology is constantly improving, I'm afraid, in a few years we will not be able to distinguish the real from the fake medal! And it is very sad !!!

Oliver860

[ThaiDave]

Hi.

Speaking of this, a fake just listed on ebay:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/JR305-World-War-1-Victory-Medal-Siam-/201692847120?hash=item2ef5d49c10:g:wtMAAOSw8gVYA8w3

This is a Blass copy (Laslo referred to it as Repro 2).

The seller responded:

Thank you for the info., I see there are many types and thus it is up to the Buyer to know what they are bidding on as the details between the types can be very small to tell.
I will be happy to answer any questions I can.

Rgds

RDave

JR305-World War 1 Victory Medal-Siam.pdf

Edited October 17, 2016 by ThaiDave
correcting auto-merge

[lambert]

On 16/10/2016 at 16:12, macchianera72 said:

Hallo Lambert,

this is not the first 
I have many Interallied Victory Medals,  but for the first time I have one of Siam in my hands,
I'm looking for 4 medals:
1) The issue of South Africa bilingual without mark
2) U.S. Victory Medal with "Beveled Lug" suspension device
3) Italian Victory Medals unofficial (rare types)
4) The Brasilian Victory Medal
...and few other unofficial types

Kind Regards

Claudio,  from Italy

Hello Claudio.

Certainly today with the internet your search became much easier to find the medals, really have seen more easily some rare Vics. With the problems of the global financial crisis, many items appear for sale on the market.

An example here, in recent months several medals taken for rare and difficult appears with some frequency. "Order of the Rose, Navy Cross 1942-45, Campaign Cross 1917/18, Victory Medal Brazil ..."

 

Lambert

19 hours ago, oliver860 said:

Hi, gentlemen!

 

Forgery expensive medals will always tempt a variety of scams! Since the manufacture of counterfeit technology is constantly improving, I'm afraid, in a few years we will not be able to distinguish the real from the fake medal! And it is very sad !!!

Oliver860

Hello Oliver.

Have you seen any examples like this?

Lambert