jbott Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Hello Gentlemen, This is my first post on your forum which I just became a member. Great site! A little bit about me. I am a US Service member station in Southern Germany. I have never been a collector of Military Antiques, but as a fan of history I was looking for a good souvenir to remember my time here in Germany. I had heard through the grapevine about a small antique shop in a small town near me that had a closed off back room that the old lady would let you into if it was apparent to her that you were American. So I went there and it was as described. The small room was filled with medals, helmets, daggers, etc. It was quite impressive. Anyway I saw this plate and after she showed me the back, my mind was made to buy it. After I got it home and started looking around at WWII relics online I started to worry that it might not be real. The two things that concern me are there is no makers mark of any kind, and the printing(?) on the front is far from straight. Any knowledge or opinions about this plate would be appreciated. Give it to me straight, I can handle it. Thanks!
jbott Posted July 17, 2011 Author Posted July 17, 2011 And here is the back. There is only the writing shown and two small holes in the top for displaying it.
JimZ Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Hi Jbott, Welcome on board. Cannot really say much about the plate as its totally out of my area, but you are very right to notice that nothing much is aligned on the front. I could only imagine that if that plate was presented to Himmler heads would have, almost quite certainly, rolled! Good luck with establishing the veracity or otherwise of this item. Kind regards Jim :cheers:
jbott Posted July 17, 2011 Author Posted July 17, 2011 Sorry I should have included a translation for the non German speakers (myself included) out there. According to Google Translate: "Geschenk des Reichsführers-SS Heinrich Himmler an sämtliche SS-Angehörige" is translated as: "Gift of the Reich Leader SS Heinrich Himmler to all members of the SS" In my mind this type of plate would not have been super rare, but I'm not an expert. While trying to search for something like this online I was only able to find one reference for it at a German auction website (third block down): http://www.auktionsh...r=7&page=5&ops= According to the text description of the plate it reads exactly the same on the back. I also found a similar plate on the same website with a different text on the back (second block down): http://www.auktionsh...r=7&page=1&ops= The text on the back is translated as: "Porcelain Manufactory Allach SS gift of the Reich Leader SS Heinrich Himmler to all members of the SS" The website appears to from an auction that took place in 2007
JimZ Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Well...on the other hand...I do not see anyone daring to complain about the alignment if this was a gift from Himmler Will be interesting to follow this thread and learn something new.....
Chris Boonzaier Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 IMHO... best used as a target for air gun shooting... Not by any chance a shop on Rothenburg?
jbott Posted July 17, 2011 Author Posted July 17, 2011 IMHO... best used as a target for air gun shooting... Not by any chance a shop on Rothenburg? Yes in fact it was in Rothenburg. Sounds like you might know something about this little store.
Chris Boonzaier Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 Yes in fact it was in Rothenburg. Sounds like you might know something about this little store. Spend your money at the pastry shop on that street.... plenty of better places to get militaria... in fact... you could use the plate for pastry.. Hope you did not spend too much? :unsure:
jbott Posted July 18, 2011 Author Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) IMHO... best used as a target for air gun shooting... Chris, before I start using this for target practice or eating a snack, I would like to hear your thoughts on why you think it might not be real. Help me learn. Thanks, Jason Edited July 18, 2011 by jbott
Chris Boonzaier Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Hi, its not my collecting field, but the way the images are applied do not seem period at all. The link to the 2nd auction you posted also notes that it is made for collectors. (Hence the prices) best Chris
larsb001 Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) Chris, before I start using this for target practice or eating a snack, I would like to hear your thoughts on why you think it might not be real. Help me learn. Thanks, Jason Hi Jason. I do not as such collect 3R items so I'm not an expert so take my words as such. But I can use my common sense: 1. I do not know the number of SS people in 1933 but there were many. All of them had a dagger and it this was true, they would have a plate as well. Take a look at the various serious deales and auction houses (they are all on the net) and you can easily buy more than 100 daggers tomorrow, search for this plate and you'll fond 0. 2. Everything from the 3R period is strictly symetric, even the items that are not. The four eagles shown here seems to be added completely disorganized, like my young son would have done if he was asked to apply four stikers. 3. Why is this plate not marked, everything else from this period is marked? 4. Why on earth would the designer put an army eagle above the SS runes? 5. Why choose a plate which would cause a major logistic problem to distribute througout Germany which is pretty large , why not a piece of paper that could be framed, or a pin or ...? 6. When an auction house labels a plate of a similar design as a collectors copy, wouldn't that ring a bell? 7. And so on .... Buy a book (there a tons) or spend a little time in here before you spend more money at that shop - did the old lady tell you it was actually her fathers/uncles plate to prove originality? Cheers, Lars Edited July 19, 2011 by larsb001
jbott Posted July 19, 2011 Author Posted July 19, 2011 Lars, you make some excellent points that pretty much confirm my fears. You know what they say:" Hindsight is always 20-20." It really rings true for me now, but it wan't for impulse buys I would never buy anything! The last thing I need is a new hobby but the feeling of owning a true piece of history was something else.
JimZ Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Well Jason, Lets all look at the bright side... its still a souvenier of Germany and now, its also got a story attached to it.... jus one youmay not enjoy telling as much. Your next buy will most definitely be more informed!! We all learn from out mistakes!! Also makes you wonder why the old lady only lets foreigners into her back room. Take care! Jim :cheers:
Vid Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 That is a fantasy piece and awful, should be no question on this piece really. K
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