Prussia 4-Place Frack bar

[tyanacek]

Hello to all,

I just won this 4-place frack bar on an auction. It supposedly belonged to a medical officer in the Prussian Landwehr. The matching military mount was also in the same auction as a separate lot, but I did not win that one. It would have been nice to get them both, but I very happy to at least have this one. Note that the Iron Cross is mounted on a combatant ribbon yet both the Ernestine House Order-Knight's Cross Second Class and the 1914-1918 Cross of Honor are without swords. Hope you like it!

Best regards,

Tom

[tyanacek]

... and here is the reverse:

[tyanacek]

Here is the military mount:

[Claudius]

Wonderful bar. Too bad you couldn't get the other one too, but at least you have a photo of it.

Thanks for showing it!

Interesting. Do you think the orginal owner had two created for the two different coats he could wear depending on the occasion?

[tyanacek]

Wonderful bar. Too bad you couldn't get the other one too, but at least you have a photo of it.

Thanks for showing it!

Interesting. Do you think the orginal owner had two created for the two different coats he could wear depending on the occasion?

Hello Claudius,

Thank you for your comments. Yes, absolutely! The frack bar was for the civilian tuxedo and the other was for the military uniform.

Best regards,

Tom

[azyeoman]

I'm glad you got the one and sorry you didn't get them both. Perhaps the man will part with it in the near future and you can put them together again. Was it unusual for a man to have both types of bars?

[tyanacek]

I'm glad you got the one and sorry you didn't get them both. Perhaps the man will part with it in the near future and you can put them together again. Was it unusual for a man to have both types of bars?

Hello John,

Thank you for responding. Generally speaking, it was probably unusual for a guy to have both a military mount and a frack bar, but maybe not so unusual for a proud medical reserve officer that was a military man some of the time and a civilian for the rest of the time. He wanted to have a medal bar to wear whether in military or civilian attire. In my opinion, frack bars are scarce in relation to the number of military mounts that we see. So a guy having both would be very scarce and therefore unusual. In the 36 years that I have been collecting, I have only seen a few military mount/frack bar matching sets.

Best regards,

Tom

[Deruelle]

Hi Tom,

Very nice medal bar. By chance is there any hallmark on the EH3b please ? This Fraskspange was for a reserve officer (like you said) but why medical officer ? There is no red cross medal with it. Have you got a name ?

Christophe

[Paul C]

A look through the 1914 Prussian or Saxon Ranklist may turn this guy up.

[saschaw]

Saxon rank list with Prussian long service award? I find this to be unlikely.

But anyway, I don't think it's a unique combination - at least not the two awards we could confirm.

[tyanacek]

Saxon rank list with Prussian long service award? I find this to be unlikely.But anyway, I don't think it's a unique combination - at least not the two awards we could confirm.

A look through the 1914 Prussian or Saxon Ranklist may turn this guy up.

Hi Tom, Very nice medal bar. By chance is there any hallmark on the EH3b please ? This Fraskspange was for a reserve officer (like you said) but why medical officer ? There is no red cross medal with it. Have you got a name ?Christophe

Thanks for the comments, Sascha, Paul, and Christophe!

Hello Christophe:

No, there is no marking on the Ernestine House Order. And I don't know whether this belonged to a medical officer or not. When I mentioned this in my first post, I used the wording "supposedly belonged to a medical officer..." as I really have no idea whether this is in fact the case. The description of the auction lot made mention of this so maybe it is true or maybe it's not. I don't rightly know. But maybe the guy that sent this in on consignment had some additional information where he could say this with certainty. The description of the auction lot is quoted below:

"An unusual reverse order Parade Mount, this Imperial German WWI issue Four-Place Medal Bar is in beautiful condition.

It was awarded to a German Medical Officer who served through the war.

It includes a Iron Cross 2nd Class, a Saxe-Ernestine House Order (a German Ducal award), a Hindenburg Cross and a Prussian 20 Year Long Service Medal, all fitted on a pin-back red felt backed mount. Individually these medals sell for $800, you can be the judge on this unique set."

Best regards,

Tom

[Claudius]

Thanks for the comments, Sascha, Paul, and Christophe!

Hello Christophe:

No, there is no marking on the Ernestine House Order. And I don't know whether this belonged to a medical officer or not. When I mentioned this in my first post, I used the wording "supposedly belonged to a medical officer..." as I really have no idea whether this is in fact the case. The description of the auction lot made mention of this so maybe it is true or maybe it's not. I don't rightly know. But maybe the guy that sent this in on consignment had some additional information where he could say this with certainty. The description of the auction lot is quoted below:

"An unusual reverse order Parade Mount, this Imperial German WWI issue Four-Place Medal Bar is in beautiful condition.

It was awarded to a German Medical Officer who served through the war.

It includes a Iron Cross 2nd Class, a Saxe-Ernestine House Order (a German Ducal award), a Hindenburg Cross and a Prussian 20 Year Long Service Medal, all fitted on a pin-back red felt backed mount. Individually these medals sell for $800, you can be the judge on this unique set."

Best regards,

Tom

"awarded to a German Medical Officer who served through the war" either their "experts" told them it was a medical officer or they know the name because of the estate it came from.

A quick follow-up with the auction house may be helpful. Perhaps you may have to express a strict professional interest in the name in case the auction house is hesitant. It would be a shame to lose the name.