Imperial Russia Kaiser Franz Joseph & the Order of Saint George (Russia)

[Jaybo]

Gentlemen,

Does anyone know why Franz Joseph was awarded the Order of Saint George 4th Class. He is seen both in paintings and photos wearing it. Was it for not joining forces against Russia in the Crimean War? I realize that it was awarded only for military valor but he was the Emperor of Austria so maybe an exception was made.....? Thanks.

[paul wood]

I was under the impression that it was awarded by Nicholas for the suppression of the 1848-49 uprisings in Hungary and Croatia in which Russia actively supported Austria. I vaguely remember seeing a portrait of him around the time of his marriage to Sisi where he was either wearing the medal or the riband, it was along time a go and my quasi-senile memory may be at fault.

Paul

[Elmar Lang]

Paul is absolutely right: Emperor Franz Josef I received his St. George's Order 4th Class after the 1848-49 campaign, so, his memory is still fresh and age gives even more place to wisdom.

...what I can't say about myself.

E.L:

[Jaybo]

Thanks gentlemen very much for your responses.

[WRANGEL]

Nothing to do with this topic but Emperor Franz-Josef was also a Marshall of the Russian Imperial Army. Is pair of Marshall shoulder boards can be seen in the superb Heeresgeschichtliches Museum in Wien besides almost all his decorations.

Cheers

Bill

[Steen Ammentorp]

Nothing to do with this topic but Emperor Franz-Josef was also a Marshall of the Russian Imperial Army. Is pair of Marshall shoulder boards can be seen in the superb Heeresgeschichtliches Museum in Wien besides almost all his decorations.

Cheers

Bill

Actually I am a bit puzzle by this. Does anyone have a date for him becomming a Field Marshal in the Russian Army. I have been going through almost all the issues of the "список генералам по старшинству" (List of generals seniority) between 1848 and 1914. He is not listed in any of them, while a large number of Royalties and other dignitaries from other nations is - including others from AH holding honorary ranks.

[JapanX]

Franz got his 4th class of St.George on June 2, 1849.

As far as I know he wasn't Russian Field Marshal.

But he was Austrian Feldmarschall (December 2, 1848), Prussian General Feldmarschall (February 27, 1895) and British Field Marshal (September 1, 1903).

Only two his titles in the Russian Imperial Army are known to me.

He was Colonel-in-chief of Kexholm Life Guards Grenadier Regiment and 12th Belgorod Lancer Regiment (both ranks until 26 June 1914)

[paul wood]

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2013/post-3085-0-82789800-1383920871.jpgHe was also colonel in chief of the British 1st Dragoon Guards note the badge has the Imperial Austrian Arms.

Paul

[JapanX]

Yep.

Became Colonel-in-chief of 1st Dragoon Guards on 25 March 1896.

Naturally only until 1914 ...

Same story with his rank of British Field Marshal

[JapanX]

But at the same time this information

...Is pair of Marshall shoulder boards can be seen in the superb Heeresgeschichtliches Museum in Wien besides almost all his decorations.

is absolutely correct.

Indeed one of the displays (Preussischer Interims-Marschallstab) in Kaiser Franz Josef section of exhibition contains Russian Field Marshal shoulder boards.

Under a)

With the following description

EHRENFUNKTIONEN KAISER FRANZ JOSEPHS IN FREMDEN ARMEEN:

a) schulterstucke zur uniform eines russischen feldmarschalls

.

.

.

These are Russian Field Marshal shoulder boards with Nicholay I monograms.

Most likely Franz became Russian Field Marshal (assuming that these are his shoulder boards) between 1849 and 1855.

Interesting that shoulder boards (that are on display in museum) have crossed batons - this insignia appeared on russian shoulder boards only in April 1854.

P.S. Still can't find any records of Russian Field Marshal rank for Franz.

Edited November 8, 2013 by JapanX

[Steen Ammentorp]

Hi,

Personally I doubt that the shoulder boards belonged to Franz Joseph. As I said he is not listed in any of the "Список генералитету по старшинству" / "список генералам по старшинству"(List of generals by seniority) 1852, 1855, 1856, 1857, 1859, 1861, 1862, 1863, 1864, 1865, 1866, 1867, 1868, 1869, 1871, 1873, 1874, 1875, 1876, 1877, 1880, 1881, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1885, 1886, 1887, 1888, 1889, 1890, 1891, 1892, 1893, 1894, 1896, 1897, 1898, 1899, 1900, 1901, 1902, 1903, 1904, 1905, 1907, 1908, 1909,1910, 1911, 1912, 1913, 1914

While i.e. Arch-Duke Albert is listed as a Field Marshal.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Steen Ammentorp

[JapanX]

I completely agree Steen, this is indeed very alarming.

Cheers,

Nick

[Auseklis]

http://www.hermann-historica-archiv.de/auktion/hhm52.pl?f=NR&c=55788&t=temartic_m_D&db=kat52_M.txt

[paul wood]

I wouldn't guarantee the authenticity of those shoulderboards I'm sure I've seen them somewhere before without the uniform.

Paul

[JapanX]

Interesting.

Colonel uniform with russian field marshal shoulder boards without monograms...

[JapanX]

I wouldn't guarantee the authenticity of those shoulderboards I'm sure I've seen them somewhere before without the uniform.

Judging by the hummer price (€ 11.500) somebody really had faith in this set

[JapanX]

I think it`s about time we take a good look at this famous display in Heeresgeschichtliches Museum

[JapanX]

Edited November 9, 2013 by JapanX

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

More sharp image

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

[JapanX]

Sweet!

[JapanX]

Under different light