erikscollectables Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Some time ago I wrote a small article in Dutch (for the order and decorations study group) about the KuK Bravery awards. From that article some info on the absolute and relative scarcity of the Prussian EK compared to the KuK Bravery Medals on which I hope to get more input/info and opinions to improve the info I have so far. Please add here! This is not a scientific piece as the right for that info is currently not available to me. It is just a comparison of some numbers available in several sources and even for these numbers there are differences in different sources. This text also will not go into the acts needed for rewarding the medal, which obviously changed during the war as well. So despite or maybe even dus to all these limitations I add it here as a post to get more info if avialable. Medal equivalents were a matter of diplomatic arrangements. Between Germany and Austro-Hungary the rules as I have understood them (mainly from Jorg Steiners book Heldenwerk) are as follows: Germans would get an Silver Bravery Medal 2nd class as equivalent to the EKII and a Silver Bravery Medal 1st class as equivalent to the EKI. This only counts for NCO’s as the bravery medals were NCO medals (only formal officers Bravery award in the KuK is the Military Maria Theresia Order – others were merit awards etc). The other way around in the KuK army only officers could get an EK and junior officers were eligible for the EKII and only senior officers could get an EKI. For NCO’s there was only one medal available from the German side the Prussian Military Merit order which was awarded around 7000 times to AH NCO’s. Now the numbers: During the wartime the Germans had in total 13.400.000 people mobilised for the war effort and the KuK army 7.800.000. Relative strengths obviously were different during different times in the war this is a cumulative number (will add the source asap). The Germans: Of the EKI a total of around 218.000 were awarded which comes down to 1 in every 61 of the total number of mobilized people. Of the EKII 5.000.000 were awarded which comes down to a rounded numer of 1 in every 3 mobilized people. The Austro-Hungarians: Golden Bravery Medal 5.000 times which comes down to 1 in every 1560 mobilized Silver Bravery Medal 1st class 143.000, 1 in every 55 mobilized Silver Bravery Medal 2nd class 581.000, 1 in 13 mobilized Bronze Bravery Medal 1.200.000, 1 in 7 mobilized The total comes down to the Germans 1 of 3 mobilized would have an EK and for the AH 1 of 4 would have a bravery medal. The comparison is not completely true as the EK was awarded to both NCO’s and officers but more detailed info on the EK to NCO’s compared to officers I have not found – if some one has the numbers please let me know so I can update this. Anyways the relative (and obviously by the smaller size of the army the absolute) number of Austro-Hungarian Bravery awards is smaller than that of the Prussian/German EK’s. The best comparison can be made between the EKI/STM1 and the EKII/STM2 as they were the official equivalents. As mentioned above: EKI 218.000, 1 in 61 - SBM1 143000, 1 in 55 EKII 5.000.000, 1 in 3 - SBM2 581.000, 1 in 13 Best regards, Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 To me, this is a very interesting comparason! Is it known how many of these awards were issued to foreigners(how many EKs were awarded to AH and vice versa)? From what I understand, the number of EKs awarded to non Germans was significant. Also, Hitler was in the Austrian Army, wasnt he? He had both EK awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikscollectables Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 To me, this is a very interesting comparason! Is it known how many of these awards were issued to foreigners(how many EKs were awarded to AH and vice versa)? From what I understand, the number of EKs awarded to non Germans was significant. Also, Hitler was in the Austrian Army, wasnt he? He had both EK awards. Thanks! Will look up the number but by heart around 7000 EKII to the AH and less than 500 EKI If I am correct Hitler was a sergeant in WWI so if he indeed was in the AH army this should be impossible but if I remember correctly he served in a German unit not an AH one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikscollectables Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Looked it up: Only 341 EKI to AH senior officers (of which 144 in 1918) 7478 EKII to AH officers 7123 KVM to AH NCO's (numbers come from Jorg Steiners book Heldenwerk on the Golden Bravery Medal) Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Hitler was a Gefreiter (lance corporal) in the Bavarian Army. Besides the Iron Crosses, he received the Bavarian Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Klasse mit Schwertern. You cannot really compare a decoration awarded, at least officially, without regard to rank like the Iron Cross with a rank-based awards system such as that used by Austria-Hungary (or Bavaria for that matter). There was a real north-south divide here. During World War I, most northern German states - Prussia, Oldenburg, both Mecklenburgs, Braunschweig, Anhalt, Lippe-Detmold, Schaumburg-Lippe, and the three Hanseatic cities - had as their main military award a decoration awarded without regard to rank. Most southern German states - Austria, Bavaria, Saxony, Württemberg, Baden, the Thuringian states, Hohenzollern. The only exceptions were Hesse-Darmstadt, basically a southern state, which awarded its General Honor Decoration "For Bravery" to generals and privates alike, and Waldeck, a northern state, which had a rank-based system. Prussia acceded to Austria-Hungary's rank-based system by awarding Iron Crosses only to officers and the Krieger-Verdienstmedaille to NCOs and enlisted men. So you have to account for all the Austro-Hungarian decorations and break down the comparison by ranks, but such data is not available for the Iron Cross. You would have to compare Iron Crosses to enlisted men and NCOs with bronze Bravery Medals and silver Bravery Medals and Iron Crosses to junior officers with the bronze or silver Military Merit Medal (Signum Laudis) on the ribbon of the Military Merit Cross. And some officers might skip the Military Merit Medal and get the Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration as their initial bravery award, and maybe an Order of the Iron Crown as an Iron Cross 1st Class "equivalent". And for all but a minority of Prussians, the Iron Cross was all they would receive, while Austria-Hungary allowed for repeat awards. Also, the Iron Cross was awarded for military merit, not just bravery, so you would have to account for many similar awards of the Franz Josef-Orden with War Decoration and the Merit Crosses (gold, silver and iron with and without crown) on the ribbon of the Bravery Medal. For example, k.u.k. Oberleutnant and later Wehrmacht Generalleutnant Gustav Adolph-Auffenberg-Komarów received the Bronze Signum Laudis on the ribbon of the Military Merit Cross on 7 December 1914, the Military Merit Cross with War Decoration and Swords on 30 July 1915, the Silver Signum Laudis on the ribbon of the Military Merit Cross on 15 May 1916, and the Order of the Iron Crown 3rd Class with War Decoration and Swords on 12 December 1916. He also received the Iron Cross 2nd Class in 1916. On the enlisted side, I don't have the exact dates, but Anton Haberhauer received the Silver Bravery Medal 2nd Class in 1914, a second award of the Silver Bravery Medal 2nd Class in 1916, the Silver Bravery Medal 1st Class in 1916, a second award of the Silver Bravery Medal 1st Class later in 1916, the Golden Bravery Medal also in 1916, and the Silver Merit Cross with the Crown on the ribbon of the Bravery Medal in 1917. That's six awards, four in 1916 alone. For what it's worth, Haberhauer finally did receive the Iron Cross, 1st and 2nd Class, in June 1941 and the German Cross in Gold in December 1941. Gustav Adolph-Auffenberg-Komarów got the 1939 clasp to his EK2 and the 1939 EK1 and German Cross in Gold. Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikscollectables Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) Hello Dave, Thanks for the added info. Of some of the limitations of the comparison I was aware but of many you mentioned above not yet. A real meaningfull and scientific comparison probably will be impossible unless better sources for data exist than I have access to. That is why I put some "disclaimers" in the initial post In the comparison I have divided the total amount of the bravery medals by all enlisted so including the officers so that the type of comparison is at least somewhat "fair" . The repeat award actually make the relative scarcity of the AH medals a bit higher as quite a number of the total went into these multiple awards (so less people with a bravery award than the total amount awarded) and the EK's were a single time award as you mentioned. On the other hand if the EK's could have been multiple awards many more would have been awarded so with still a relative higher scarcity of the AH medals. For the AH army there were only "national" awards and for the Germans as you mentioned also all sorts of state awards which would make the real comparison even more difficult , to be honest, impossible. For the Honved part of the army I have better and more detailed numbers including the officers medals so there it might work if I had the division between officers and lower ranks of both the EKI and II Regards, Erik Edited August 24, 2012 by erikscollectables Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishGunner Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 An interesting and useful discussion. Thanks for your efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikscollectables Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 And for a bit of visualisation and EKII award to an officer of the Ulans (part of a bigger album) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 The class bias I mentioned in the Austro-Hungarian orders system might also be a factor for another reason. As you note, enlisted awards are relatively uncommon, but it seems that for officers the Austrians were more liberal. Here is an example page from the 1918 Ranglisten der K. K. Landwehr und der K. K. Gendarmerie, showing some infantry reserve Oberleutnants. In making the picture small enough to fit here, I know it's hard to read, but the most common little icons are the bronze and silver MVMs with Swords. For officers, this Signum Laudis was the basic award, more or less equivalent to the EK2. Also, about two dozen of these officers have the MVK 3rd Class with War Decoration. This rank list was current as of the end of 1917, and partially through Personalverodnungsblatt Nr. 50 of 1918. One also has the Order of the Iron Crown. I imagine many of these officers added more decorations in the last year of the war. This isn't scientific, but does give a little extra color. I imagine active officers would have more awards, but I don't have an active officer rank list after 1916. On the other hand, officers in other branches might have fewer awards than these Oberleutnants, who were probably mostly infantry company commanders. I don't think there is any way to figure out a breakdown between officers and enlisted men in the Prussian Army. Maybe for an individual regiment, if the regimental history has data on awards. Maybe you could do a comparison between similar units, a Prussian and an Austro-Hungarian infantry regiment, for example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igor Ostapenko Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 In WWI - Golden Bravery Medal 5.000 times, Silver Bravery Medal 1st class 143.000, Silver Bravery Medal 2nd class 581.000, Bronze Bravery Medal 1.200.000. How Bravery medals was before 1914 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 Hi, How many men under arms in 14-18? Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azyeoman Posted January 12, 2013 Share Posted January 12, 2013 This is a really interesting article. Thank you for the statistics too; very informative! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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