Kriegsmarine Kriegsmarine Makers Marks

[Gordon Williamson]

 

Is there an example of CE JUNCKER on a naval badge? Especially the AC badge? John

 

 

The late Bill Stump is one of the few collectors I know who had a Juncker marked AC and Kai Winkler has had one for sale in the past. The mark is stamped rather than raised. Here is the pic I got from Bill showing the maker mark on his. (CEJUNCKER / BERLIN SW)

 

[John R]

The late Bill Stump is one of the few collectors I know who had a Juncker marked AC and Kai Winkler has had one for sale in the past. The mark is stamped rather than raised. Here is the pic I got from Bill showing the maker mark on his. (CEJUNCKER / BERLIN SW)

Does this seem odd or did the period marks include stamped types also?

[Naxos]

'Frank & Reif Stuttgart' Did this maker produce U-Boot Abzeichen?

Hardy

[Martin W]

Hardy,i might be wrong but i beleive that Frank & Reif did not produce U-Boat badges and any badge with that maker mark should be considered a fake.Hopefully,someone more knowlegable can verify this.

best wishes,Martin.

[Gordon Williamson]

Martin is absolutely correct. The Frank & Reif marked U-Boat Badges are fake.

[Naxos]

Thank you Martin and Gordon, I really appreciate your quick answers.

Hardy

[John R]

WAF has just posted a link to a German forum in which the member BassD explains why the sign of "??" is the company logo of E.Ferd. Wiedmann/Frankfurt.

[TonyR]

here's the mm for Beco who made minesweepers and destroyers (at least one that I've seen).

 

Tony

 

[Jan Arne S]

Hi Guys !

Very good topic !!

Does any one have L/16 or 4 marked KM badges , think I have seen that on Destroyer Badges .

Jan Arne

[Avitas]

Does this seem odd or did the period marks include stamped types also?

Along these lines, did mid to later war pieces include more stampings of makers marks (opposed to reliefs)? Specifically, I have seen a Schwerin maker mark (stamp marked SCHWERIN, BERLIN68) stamped in the same font as the raised early versions on a nice Destroyer badge. The pin, hinge and catch all match, as well as the design, to the Schwerin type mentioned as the late war type. I have not been able to come up with much info on whether Schwerin marked Destroyer badges this way. The metal doesn't seem to have a great deal of zinc in it also. Any ideas?

Thanks,

Pat

[Gordon Williamson]

I'd be very sceptical of a Schwerin destroyer badge with a stamped maker mark. The mid/late war zinkers should have relief maker mark just as on the early tombak pieces. Never heard of one of their destroyer badges with a stamped mark.

[Avitas]

Thanks for the response Gordon, I will take it with caution for sure. I wish I could afford a new Mac right now, but since I am still stuck with my 1999 IMac (a relic!) I can't post pics yet (until I bug a fellow member at least, which I hate doing). The hinge and pin are exactly the same as the standard Schwerin one pictured on various forums, and it is of a tombak make up. The gold finish is a very salt-water oxidized "green" with only a bit of untainted gold on the inner edges, and the black oxidized finish has been mostly polished off, it apparently came from a vet in New Brunswick, Canada who had done this himself. It has no casting lines, is die-struck and the measurements match 100%. The only difference, which brings us back to being relevant for the thread, is the stamped Schwerin Berlin 68 maker mark (In uneven lettering I might add) in the same font as the relief version. Is it not possible that in the mid years they might have made a few with this style stamping, and then switched back to the relief for the zinkers? Some might say this is wishful thinking, but there are many unmarked variants attributed to most of the major makers, so why not a variant on the maker mark? I only make this point because all of the other tests and comparisons match, and it just feels to me to be an original good badge, it is a far cry from any of the known fakes in my collection (scratch test to see if there is bright metal underneath a "fake" finish came up with more old metal, details of the wreath and tombak metal make up are same, the hinge and pin set-up is exact as well as the circular plate used for the catch and second hook are there, oxidization is authentic, and the edges and back match what you see on good badges, etc). Thanks for any help on this maker mark question.

Keep your stick on the ice,

Pat

[Gordon Williamson]

I think we'd need to see a photograph to have any chance of telling if this is a genuine anomoly or not.

[nesredep]

I think we'd need to see a photograph to have any chance of telling if this is a genuine anomoly or not.

Hello!

Gordon

I agree.

All the best

Nesredep

[Avitas]

Thanks Gordon and Nasredep for your responses,

I recently bought the badge and by your feedback I should probably ask for a refund or exchange, as I called the well-respected dealer from Edmonton and he said he stood by his items, so I assume that means I can exchange it. I will try to post pics first if he refuses the refund, but I will try to post pics because it looks and feels like and original to me, the way the maker mark is printed and the hinge and pin are the same as the write-up on W-Awards forum, the catch is different, but I am fairly new to the field still. I will try to get back on this soon!

Thanks again,

Pat

[Martin W]

Pat,

i just read the last few posts and i agree with Gordon and nesredep that we definately need some pictures here.As Gordon mentioned i would be very sceptical of a Schwerin Destroyer with a stamped MM.

Regards,Martin.

[Avitas]

Hello Gents,

I just emailed the scans to Larry Strong so he should probably be posting them soon when he gets the message. If he hasn't replied for a couple days maybe I can email them to Martin or Gordon or Nasredep to post (again, my old MAC doesnt allow me to upload pics to GMIC, I'm very sorry). I have a couple close ups of the maker mark and pin/hinge to have a look at as well. I spoke to the dealer and let him know my concerns and he said he would stick by his items so hopefully that means an exchange if this one turns out to be no good.

Thanks for all the help!

Pat

[Laurence Strong]

Hi All

I posted Pats badge here:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=27703&hl=

Don't ever worry about sending me photo's Pat, takes all of 2 minutes to post for you....and get away from them Macs

[Guest Darrell]

 

The stamped version so far only seen on U-Boat Badges (often quite faint)

 

Hi Gordon, I took a look at my "faint" U-Boat 1st Pattern badge it it looks to be an identical mark to yours. Were these applied as ONE stamp, TWO Stamps (both lines) or individual letters. The letters are quite small when you look at them in hand.

 

Edited April 20, 2015 by Darrell

[Gordon Williamson]

Can't think of any maker stamps that would be in more than one part. Different when you have a maker mark plus a silver mark or whatever, but makers marks split over two lines of text like the stamped Schwerin mark would be a single piece stamp IMO. Otherwise, being hand done, you'd see lots of variants in spacing with the two lines of text being not quite in parallel etc.

[Edgar Estrada]

I have two questions. Please, excuse me for my ignorance about the topic, but asking I think is one of the way to learn.

1. Why does some of the KM badges have maker marc and others not? (Even from the same makers. Just as it is the case with the Iron Crosses)

2. What is more common: the badges with MM or the ones without it?

Thanks a lot for the information.

Regards

Edgar

[107]

The before mentioned Wiedmann (??). It has some war damage, but you can still see the mm.

[stuart]

hi

i purchased a km award that looks like private purchase,it is made of silver.

the makers mark is a shell which i cant find any where.

is there any sites that show the pictures of all awards.

if you can help

[Martin W]

Hi Stuart,

can you post photographs here?

I am sure that some one can be of help if we can see images of the award.

Regards,Martin.

[stuart]

Hi Stuart,

can you post photographs here?

I am sure that some one can be of help if we can see images of the award.

Regards,Martin.

hi

ive tried but my pics are 5 megs each.

if people send their email i could send them