Fake Socialist Yugoslavia Fakes!

[paja]

Prototype? Displayed in Military Museum.

[paja]

Here it is together with the rest of the decorations instituted in 1943.

At least three of them are made in Yugoslavia not USSR, I am not sure about People's Hero, image is too small (found on wiki).

[utopis]

...

[paja]

Thanks. By the way are there better copies of first class out there? I've heard some stories but never actually saw one.

[paja]

Here's one more than obvious fake.

[paja]

Same seller different order, this time with booklet as well.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-47813800-1416873243.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-48330200-1416873246.jpg

[paja]

Flat black side.
http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-27169900-1416873305.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-70085100-1416873306.jpg

[paja]

This guy also had copies of official documents.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-69280600-1416873505.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-13676400-1416873507.jpg

[paja]

Order of Military Merits 1st type, 1st class.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-77854700-1416928847.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-25899200-1416928849.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-05369900-1416928850.jpg

[paja]

Order of Military Merits 1st type, 2nd class.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-97295600-1416928926.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-34635600-1416928931.jpg

[paja]

One more.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-99900600-1416929077.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-61174800-1416929082.jpg

[paja]

I suppose 3rd class.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-86505500-1416929203.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-92478900-1416929206.jpg

[Hauptmann]

...

Out of curiosity, what are the signs this Partisan Star 1st Class is a fake? Were they only made with screwbacks or were there pinbacks like this? No makers mark? I currently have no specific references on Yugoslavian awards so have little to go on except the various forums, etc.

Dan

[utopis]

screwbacks or were there pinbacks like this? No makers mark?

Both.

Some marked, some unmarked.

The overall quality gives this one away.

[paja]

I also have some issues with this order.

-First there's the regular Soviet type, 18 karat gold, Roman numeral "I" inscription "СТЕПЕНИ" and number of the order are on the back side. Screw nut is larger and has no inscription on it (although I read somewhere that there's authentic piece with screw nut (with inscription) used for lower classes).

-Certain number of these orders were converted by IKOM, back side screw being replaced with horizontal double needle ( - so they also have "I", "СТЕПЕНИ" and number on the back side).

-Then there's the Yugoslav type made by IKOM, this one's always been a puzzle to me. The only one I've seen so far is different from Soviet type and unlike that one has a smooth surface on the back side which is completely blank. I found an article in which the author claims that this type was first made out of gilded silver, later gilded bronze, and that it had "I" on the back side. I think it's safe to guess that there's also needle variant of that type as well although I've never seen one.

-And finally we come to issue that has been bothering me the most, are there Soviet type needle variants with smooth back side without I, СТЕПЕНИ and number?

Edited November 27, 2014 by paja

[paja]

are there Soviet type needle variants with smooth back side without I, СТЕПЕНИ and number?

Something like this one: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/15023-yugoslavian-partisan-stars/?p=212789

[paja]

That's suppose to be very rare variant, but apart from surface on the back side being different it looks pretty much the same as the one utopis presented in post #53, at least to me.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-57396100-1417182395.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2014/post-7937-0-91694000-1417182398.jpg

Edited November 28, 2014 by paja

[paja]

Same photo is used here: http://sammler.ru/index.php?act=Gallery&cat=449

Marked as 2nd type (IKOM) although it looks more like the 1st type, compare it with other IKOM piece there (screw variant).

[paja]

Not really fake but something that deserves to be pointed out.
As we all know Bravery order and medal are among first Yugoslav decorations instituted during WW2. First types were produced by the Soviets and they are different from the later Yugoslav made type.

It's not really hard to tell difference between those two types but I've noticed that sellers or whoever sometimes replace those metal plates that hold the ribbon without that being mentioned it the ad or auction.

If you know what to look for it's not that hard to make difference between Soviet and Yugoslav plates as well.

First here are photos of one Soviet and two Yugoslav Bravery medals.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-85870900-1417452891.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-34968400-1417452894.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-05785500-1417452898.jpg

Edited December 1, 2014 by paja

[paja]

Soviet "ribbon-holders" (would would be the proper English term?) are made out of two metal plates that are held together by those two small pieces on the left and right of the back side (pointed out with arrows).

One more thing to be careful about it the suspension ring, on Soviet pieces it's "connected", on Yugoslav pieces you can see the small "gap".

Edited December 1, 2014 by paja

[paja]

Suspension ring with "gap" on Yugoslav types.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-90766100-1417453642.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-20450500-1417453645.jpg

[paja]

Same thing with Bravery order, first one is the Soviet, other three are Yugoslav.
http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-38829300-1417453934.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-30406600-1417453939.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-00398400-1417453943.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-7937-0-65019600-1417453945.jpg

[paja]

When it comes to Bravery order I've read somewhere that certain number of Yugoslav types was put on Soviet made "ribbon-holders", so if that's true than we can see that kind of combination. Most of them I noticed so far (about 5 or so) were in the 4XK range. But what we shouldn't see is the Soviet orders with Yugoslav plates.

Edited December 1, 2014 by paja

[paja]

One more thing to be careful about is typical for converted Brotherhood&Unity and Order for Merits Towards People.

For some reason certain amount of those decorations made by IKOM was converted in ZIN. Vertical needles were put on the back side and while doing so sometimes the number of the orders became just partially visible. This fact was misused by some sellers who because of that claimed that they are selling orders with much lower number that they actually were. In most cases order that wore 5-figure numbers were presented as orders with 4, 3 and even 2-figure numbers.

Here's one example:

[Drugo]

Paja,

good of you collecting all the fakes under one roof, thank you. Unfortunatelly, the list is not over yet...

I also noticed in the past 12/24 months a sensible increase of several higher orders that were earlier considered to be at least rare if not very rare, being offered continuously over the internet. For example, beside the Order for National Liberation (btw, yes, I had your exact impression, and I wouldn't say they are fakes!), Order of Brotherhood and Unity I Class, Order of Labour with Red Flag, Partisan Star II class, Order of Bravery russian type, just to mention those who now appear to be permanently on sale! Where do they come from???