Soviet Slava 1st Up for Bid

[slava1stclass]

To all:

Serial number 597 is currently listed on a well-known auction site with an opening bid of $9.00.

Regards,

slava1stclass

Edited March 9, 2006 by slava1stclass

[Stogieman]

Yes but...

A) Is it real?

B) Does the serial number match up in the Cavaliers' Book?

C) If (B) is yes, (a real long shot now...) Do the other two Glories listed make this a set??? !!!

[HuliganRS]

It's being sold as a single medal.

Rusty.

[Riley1965]

I'm not sure about this one. An OG 1st class starting at $9 ?!!

Doc

It's being sold as a single medal.

Rusty.

[Stogieman]

Hi Rusty, I know it's being sold as a single. That doesn't really answer my question(s).

Curious as to what folks think about the piece and if anyone can answer my questions above please?

Thanks, Rick

[HuliganRS]

Yes but...

A) Is it real?

B) Does the serial number match up in the Cavaliers' Book?

C) If (B) is yes, (a real long shot now...) Do the other two Glories listed make this a set??? !!!

Rick,

A. with these pics, it's anyones guess.

B. I don't understand where you're going with this! The number will be in the Cavalier's Book. Doesn't make this Glory real.

C. There is no way to get a 1st Glory without having earned Glory 3 and 2.

Rusty.

[Stogieman]

OK, let me clarify....

Yes, I understand that if the piece is in the book, that doesn't make this one real. My point is, IF it's listed in the book, does the book also list the NUMBERS of his second and third class awards?? I don't have the book, hence the question.

The seller also has a second and third class listed individually. My question is: Do all three (3) awards listed constitute a set? Call me curious.... Has he broken a set? Has somebody faked a set?

Yes, I understand the extreme nature of the possibility of this being real..... but stranger things have happened. Given that a number of his other items appeared to have been real I will ever be curious. He has sent me larger photos which I will play with and post a bit later so those of you with some real experience might be able to share that knowledge with those of us who don't. My initial look at the pictures he sent and already, IMO, the detail level of the tower, etc. just isn't there. But again, I have zero experience but would surely like to learn something more about these.

If it's a fake, why?

I understand that a great many of you may find the endless questions, naive curiosity and "newbie" naivity a bit tiresome..... but how exactly can you expect us to learn, if we don't ask?

[NavyFCO]

I can tell you that some of the pieces this fellow is selling are outright fakes, and poor ones at that. Also, looking at some of the auctions that have already closed, some of the bidding is very mysterious, like a $710 OGPW1st? Something doesn't smell right...

Dave

[Stogieman]

Hi Dave, was that his suspension one or the S/B?? He had a couple of S/B that looked quite right?

Photos shortly, it would be great to use the opportunity to help "inquiring minds" learn! Thanks!

[Stogieman]

Big photos as provided by seller. As I said previously, to me, the utter lack of detail on the Spassky Tower says NFG on this point alone....... I am interested in knowing if this is correct, what else tells you this piece is bad? Thanks for indulging my inexperience.

[Stogieman]

The reverse. Serial number, which appears to be stamped as opposed to engraved, means either it's an outright fake, or an attempt to fake a duplicate.... ??

What tells you it's bad??

Thanks!

[Christophe]

(...) The seller also has a second and third class listed individually. My question is: Do all three (3) awards listed constitute a set? Call me curious.... Has he broken a set? Has somebody faked a set? (...)

Rick,

The real 1st Class #597 must match with:

* 2nd Class #4159

* 3rd Class #44483

What are the ones listed ?

Cheers.

Ch.

[Stogieman]

Not even close...

6501

804414

Thanks Christophe....... at least I know now that

A) It isn't a set

B) It isn't a fake set

All individual pieces might be fake, but the level of deceit doesn't go beyond that.

[Gerd Becker]

Big photos as provided by seller. As I said previously, to me, the utter lack of detail on the Spassky Tower says NFG on this point alone....... I am interested in knowing if this is correct, what else tells you this piece is bad? Thanks for indulging my inexperience.

Rick,

the lack of detail on the tower could be from wear. I am far from an expert, but there are a lot of things, i like on this Glory 1st class. Only thing, i have noticed, what i did not like, was the style of the "5" in the serialnumber. The S/N were allways stamped on Glory 1st classes, as far as i know.

If its a fake, its a really really good one...

Gerd

[slava1stclass]

To all:

The bidding war on this one is slowly picking up steam.

Regards,

slava1stclass

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks, Gerd,

For those of us who want to learn, knopwing WHY something is ruled "good" or "bad" is vitally important. So often, a piece is just dismissed as "bad, just because I say so" and it is left there. Setting aside standards of gentlemanly behavior, this helps no one (except, perhaps, the poster's ego). Sure, there is the potential problem of our posts helping the fakers do it better the next time, but so long as the ignorant denizens of eBay will pay almost any silly price for their tripe, why should they care about our diagnoses?

Thanks again,

Ed

Edited March 10, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Bryan]

I'm no expert, but the loop is very crude, the red star looks to small, lacks of details on the Kremlin tower, enamel looks cheap. The whole thing is very crude.

[Gerd Becker]

Thanks, Gerd,

For those of us who want to learn, knopwing WHY something is ruled "good" or "bad" is vitally important. So often, a piece is just dismissed as "bad, just because I say so" and it is left there. Setting aside standards of gentlemanly behavior, this helps no one (except, perhaps, the poster's ego). Sure, there is the potential problem of our posts helping the fakers do it better the next time, but so long as the ignorant denizens of eBay will pay almost any silly price for their tripe, why should they care about our diagnoses?

Thanks again,

Ed

I agree completely, Ed.

I will add some other points:

I like the fact, that one of the arms is bent a little, as if someone tried to check the gold-content. I like the gold-color on this piece, as its that, what i would await from a Glory 1st class.

I DON`T like the style of the "5" and the "9"(found another piece in my files with a 9 in the S/N). Although i don?t know, if they only used one set of stamps to make the S/N. Soviet made a very good point about the star, its a bit too small also in my opinion. And the more i look, the more i think, that is no wear on the Tower, but crude detail. The whole piece looks a little crude, but that could be dings and scratches.

I have only once in my life hold a real first class and like i said, i am no expert, but i have enough experience to say, that i would never buy a 1st class Slava on ebay or with this pictures and without an opinion from someone, who has seen more than i did.

Gerd

[NavyFCO]

Here's one that the guy is selling that's clearly bad. Look at the milky yellow enamel, the bad red color enamel, the odd gilt... you can go down the list on it...

[NavyFCO]

Here's one that's obviously fake (duh). However, it's a beautifully done piece, I think one of the better replica ones of these out there.

What this looks like is that a guy is selling someone's collection and the collector bought both original and copy pieces to fill in all the different types in his collection. The fakes tend to be the higher awards, and thus the theory makes sense - he just bought repros of awards he couldn't afford otherwise. Or, he might have bought repros thinking that they were real... never know!

Dave

[Wild Card]

Thanks, Gerd,

For those of us who want to learn, knopwing WHY something is ruled "good" or "bad" is vitally important. So often, a piece is just dismissed as "bad, just because I say so" and it is left there. Setting aside standards of gentlemanly behavior, this helps no one (except, perhaps, the poster's ego). Sure, there is the potential problem of our posts helping the fakers do it better the next time, but so long as the ignorant denizens of eBay will pay almost any silly price for their tripe, why should they care about our diagnoses?

Thanks again,

Ed

Good point and well said.

I just do not feel comfortable with this piece; but for the longest time, I could not say exactly why. Therefore, I hesitated to say anything; but it still bothered me.

Most obvious to me is the already mentioned lack of detail to the Kremlin Tower; but I am willing to concede that it may be due to wear. The second thing, not yet mentioned is that the first two ?C?s? in the center of the reverse appear to be rotated a few degrees counter clockwise, or to the left.

Most of all though is the ?5? (I assume that it is a ?5?) in the serial number. Please notice that the top of the ?5? on the example under discussion is straight, maybe even curving downward. Below are the serial numbers of two examples (unfortunately about one thousand units higher) which show the tops of the ?5?s? to be clearly bowed upward.

I am admittedly anything but an expert on Soviet pieces; but having access to these two examples, I felt that I should show them for comparison.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

Examples.

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks, Wild Card. Sure, sometimes it just boils down to what your "gut" tells you (I am struggling with a case just now of the naming on a very uncommon GSM for Iraq), but it hjelps the community when we can put that "gut" into words, and points to specifics. Somtimes saying why we thing (THINK) the way we do helps us too in refining our perceptions.

Thanks again.

[Stogieman]

The eBay piece sold for in excess of $1500 USD. Somebody just bought a very expensive paperweight.

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

Although too late to help the hapless bidder; I would like to follow up on my posts #21/2 with regard to the ?5? in the serial number. Because my examples are about a thousand units from the subject piece, I was concerned that there might have been a change somewhere between them.

Below is a picture of #975 which is much closer. As you can see, this piece also shows a ?5? with the upward bowed upper arm. Maybe someone could show an example with a ?5? in a serial number below 597?

I apologize for not posting this one with the others, but she lives quite a way from home and just arrived this morning.

Best wishes,

Wild Card