Unidentified Strange UV Test of Imperial ribbon

[kasle]

I have a simple question to which I can´t find simple answer. When I tested ribbons under UV light in the past, it was always quick and decisive:
positive ribbons are modern fakes, negative ribbons have a chance to be original. It is always useful mainly with EK ribbons, where white on modern fakes brightly glows electric blue
But what to think about ribbon where white (as a basic colour of the material) doesn't glow, but red stripes glow orange? It happened with 4-piece ribbon bar, where three ribbons (EK2, Kroneorden, Zentenarmedaille) are UV negative, but the last one (Turkish war medal) gives results mentioned above. Last ribbon shows no signs of being added lately, and it is sewn with same thread as all other ribbons. All ribbons are worn same way and to me it looks that the ribbon bar has correct hardware. Same thing hapenned to me in the past with 2er ribbon bar (EK2 and Hessian Tapferkeit), which looked very convincing with both ribbons heavily worn, and with white colour on Hessian medal absolutely UV negative - just red stripes were glowing orange. That time I deemed the bar as fake and forgot about it, but now I think it is worth question.

Maybe it is silly question, but what do we test under UV lamp? UV-behaviour of material or of colours on it?
Thanks in advance for any opinion.

 

 

[Hoss]

Hello Both

UV testing is part of what I do for a living. Its a balance the darker the natural light source the more severe. May a suggest a more moderate light ie. the corner of a room try and think of your item as the light source not the UV tool. 

You may want to observe what you'd expect with a brighter natural light reflected back. If you see this none red  'orange' in a moderate light its probably not original BUT you may have to study period dyes/textiles to be certain 100% imo.

 

That being said I know nothing about period medals just some on material.

 

regards

Eric

[Komtur]

Ribbons can glow under UV-light and be old an original. The reason for this optical phenomenon is fluorescence.  This can happen every time and everywhere, even in nature. It is only a question of special physicochemical behavior of some substances. There are chemical substances wich fluoresces and be used for colouring, also in the 19th century. In the 1950ies was created an industrial produced substance called Blancophor given to white paper and fabric, to make them brighter. Blancophor and related substances make modern ribbons, specially with white parts, glowing. But there are definitely old ribbons, escpecially with red or purple parts, wich glow under UV too.

 

Regards, Komtur.

[kasle]

Thanks very much for the answer, Komtur.

[Chris Boonzaier]

I remember the horror I had when I put an Original Panzer pink piped jacket under a black light... and it glowed a horrible orange... apparently there is something in the pink dyes that glow orange...

Edited March 11, 2015 by Chris Boonzaier

[Gordon Craig]

Gentlemen,

 

 

I'd like to add a small comment here about Third Reich materials and their reaction to a UV-Light.  About mid war more synthetic materials were used in cloth used in ribbon material and some other applications.  This has led to a lot of confusion as to the accuracy of using a UV-Light to "date" a specific artifact.  The solution seems to be a lot of experience in using a UV-Light on materials from many eras.

 

Regards,

 

Gordon 

[VtwinVince]

I have a medal bar which glows under UV and which I originally dismissed as a fake. Apparently there is a good chance that the ribbons were cleaned at some point, which could explain the fluorescence.