8th Fighter group P40 KIA Purple Heart

[scottplen]

Not a local guy but a nice officially Script engraved Heart engraved around 1947

P40 Toni II lost over New guinea strafing Japanese airfield

MIA declared dead

found some info just beginning research found pic of his plane middle of photo I assume he is one of guys ?

Edited July 3, 2015 by scottplen

[Paul R]

The research really brings life to this medal.  Thank you Scott. 

[scottplen]

Finally found him listed in an early  flight training yearbook as an instuctor

Edited July 8, 2015 by scottplen

[John Staly]

Scott,

Oh my! Where did you find this? This medal was presented to my grandmother after my great uncle Amos "Buddy" McKee was killed in New Guinea. I have all of his military belongings except for his medal. I have been told that it might have been taken by a family member and sold. It is great to see it presented in such and honorable way. Is there any way we could have the medal returned to our family.

Best Regards,

John Staly

Edited August 24, 2015 by John Staly

[John Staly]

This is a photo of Buddy along with his grave marker. Six years after the war ended, Buddy was exhumed from a grave made by the local people in New Guinea. His remains were finally buried in Spokane Washington where he was born and raised.

 

 

Edited August 25, 2015 by John Staly

[scottplen]

Hello

I obtained this medal in a trade ! sadly I sold it a little  bit a go since I only collect local to me groups  .

I will see if I have  a record of who I sold it to off top of my head not sure

 

Scott

[John Staly]

Scott,

That would be great! We would love to get it back. Any information regarding who you sold it to would be much appreciated. 

John

[scottplen]

I just posted on other forum that I sold it on for new owner to  contact me if the are willing to sell it

www.usmilitariaforum.com

 

[John Staly]

Scott,

Pardon my ignorance, but I am new to the war medal trade. Do you feel that buying and selling war medals is an ethical activity? I wonder how my great uncle would feel about the fact that his Purple Heart medal, that was awarded to him for his ultimate sacrifice, was bought and sold on the internet.

John

[Gunner 1]

John:  May I ask what you find unethical about the buying and selling of war medals?  The vast majority of the ones on the collector market were initially sold by family members (as you indicate was the case with your uncle's Purple Heart).  If you look carefully at the medals illustrated on this Forum and other similar forums I think that you will find that the vast majority of medal collectors revere and respect the recipients of the medals they collect (if they are named or otherwise attributable) and most collectors research the recipients and often know much more about the recipients than did their family members.

Gunner 1

[John Staly]

Gunner 1,

My initial comments on this thread were based on the fact that I found information regarding my uncles missing medal. I was excited that someone had obtained it and took the time to research the person behind it. This excitement faded once I found out that the medal had been "traded". Buying and selling engraved war medals seems wrong to me, and I am welcome to my opinion. 

It is obsurd for you to say that most collectors "often know much more about the reciepents..." How many family members, of the receipents, have you reached out to? How many family members have you spoken with and compare knowledge with? I know more about this man thany anyone else. Your Google searches will never replace my discussions with my grandmother, who received this medal years after his death. The collectors excitement that he found his missing air report or a grainy photo on the internet will never get close to the fact that I know that his parents died when he was young and that my grandfather, his older brother, took responsibility for him. You can not Google that it destroyed my grandfather when Buddy died. You can not Google the last thing Buddy said to my grandmother before he left for the war. This I will not share with you.

Keep on collecting your medals. Keep on searching the internet for your clues. Keep on trading them when you are bored with them. Keep on believing that you know more about the individuals than anyone else. 

Unless you want to assist in returning this medal to his family, please keep to yourself.

John

[Gunner 1]

John:  I am sorry that it is necessary for you to be so angry in your comments but my guess is that it stems from ignorance rather than malice.  Most of the information I have on the officers I research does not come from Google (as you suggest), but rather from service papers available at The National Archives, school and college registers and rolls of honor, unit histories, war diaries, personal diaries, personal narratives, Army Lists and other similar sources which I have spent a small fortune to assemble in my library.   I also really resent your comments concerning "how many family members have you spoken with and compare (sic) knowledge with?" as I have helped thousands of family members research their relatives on the British Medal Forum, Ancestry, the Great War Forum and numerous other genealogical forums and have never charged one cent for any of the information I have provided (and I must state that in the vast majority of these discussions with family members they had very little, if any, knowledge of the war services of their relatives). I have also personally returned four different medals and medal groups to family members of the recipients including a Purple Heart to the son of my Sunday School teacher who was killed in action during the Battle of the Bulge and whose medal I purchased at an auction specifically so I could return it to his sister. I also edit two journals on medal collecting (one in the US and one in the UK) and the vast majority of the articles in each of these journals concern detailed and comprehensive research on the recipients of medals in the various authors' collections. You are certainly welcomed to your opinions, but then again so I am, and I do not appreciate being lectured by someone who has spent less than a few minutes on this Forum, who obviously has little knowledge of what medal collecting is all about and who makes accusations about me personally when he has no idea what I do, or do not do, in terms of research or interaction with relatives of medal recipients. Most of the medal collectors with whom I am acquainted do not collect for profit but rather to learn about the services of officers and men who served in the various armies of the world and to honor the service that these men (and women) performed, often at the sacrifice of their lives.

Gunner 1

Edited August 28, 2015 by Gunner 1

[John Staly]

Gunner 1,

 

I apologize for my tone. I am not angry. I know nothing about war medal collection and trade, and there is no reason to resent my comment. I know nothing about you. I am just surprised to see my uncle's engraved war medal being bought and sold on the internet. 

 

John

 

Edited August 28, 2015 by John Staly

[Gunner 1]

John:  I wish you success in finding the Purple Heart issued to your uncle and hope you are able to return it to your family.

Regards, Gunner 1

[scottplen]

whom would your great uncle be mad at the family member who sold it in the 1st place or the collector who saved his memory and honored him ? I reached out to the forum that I sold it on to help you get it back I sent you PM to let you know this you never responded.  then you go on a rant about ethics in the public forum instead of PM me !! so Ethics are my problem ok right !!! look in the mirror !

I started collecting KIA groups in the search for my uncles medals (my  profile picture)so I understand the search to get them back but to give me or any other collector crap for it is out of line!  you believe what you will .I sold it to get a local guys medal don't care about your thoughts on sale of my property I paid for  . I have reached out to many family members of medals I have had and sadly you seem to be just like most being pissed off or wanting item back for nothing ! one time I returned the medal to a family and one month later there it is on sale on e-bay to the highest bidder ! so don't talk ethics to me ! as for you knowing all about your uncle that's nice maybe you should judge  the family member who sold your family history ! I hope you get your uncles medal back but do not look to me for help ! I honored your uncle in my posts and for a moment he was alive again in the images and research so if that is bad ethic so be it ! I always wondered who in my family sold my uncles stuff but in reality I was way removed from chain of ownership and had no say I assume like you being it your great uncle.

Why come to a forum of collectors and want help then pee down their backs ?

I saw your initial post and figured crap I will try and help him get it back even after bad dealings in the past with some families  I figured this might be one of the good times  and I can help the family ! BUT no I am done with this !!! SORRY for your uncle and your families loss hope you luck in finding medal . I have been looking for 15 years for my uncles !

scottplen

 

Thanks Gunner1 for having my back !

 

Edited August 28, 2015 by scottplen

[scottplen]

John

My family losses in WW II one uncle on my fathers side and one uncle on my mothers side ! so do not judge or tell me you have the market on family loss ! I am still looking for Horace's Purple heart that was sold or lost or what ever ! If I ever find it I would not insult people who could help get it back ! I am done with this good luck  in you quest .

[John Staly]

Want it back for nothing? You said it. This is all about the money. How much did you sell it for? I read that the more information and documentation you have about the individual the more money you can get for it. I'm sorry that I told you anything about Amos.

Buying and selling engraved war medals is wrong. I find it odd how the buyers and sellers justify this hobby by blaming the family members for discarding the medals. How do you know that it was not stollen or lost. This medal did not belong to you and clearly did not mean anything to you. You bought and sold it as a hobby. 

There is a web site that's sole purpose is to return these medals to the families. You could have posted the medal to this web site but instead chose to sell it. 

http://purpleheartsreunited.org

Edited September 1, 2015 by John Staly

[scottplen]

what ever dude ! believe what you want !! I sold it !!! it  was traded to me and I sold it for what I had in it !

I tried to help then you get on your high horse !

how do we know you are rightful owner ? maybe you got a scam going keep selling it after you get it back from people ?

You keep blaming me ?? your family member sold it on the open market you said it yourself !!

I received it in a trade and moved it to get something else my right I owned it !   you asked me help then you jump on me !

I contacted several people, posted on other forums to help you  for what to get harassed because you sold your family history off and blame someone else !!!

FYI I have returned plenty of medals to family members in the past and received nothing sometimes good experiences sometimes bad ! I would have helped you in the hunt I figured bad timing on your part you contacted me a few weeks after I sold it !

out of my hands Again believe what you will ! I believe nothing wrong with collecting most times families throw away the medals

or sell them off they don't care ! I have had grandkids sell their grandfathers medals to me or throw them at me and say don't want this stuff so again judge your own family member who sold it !

Again I wish you luck hope you get it back !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scottplen]

you posted info and picture after I sold item so nothing you posted drove up cost of item ! if you want to blame collectors for your lost history go ahead ! this changed many hands before I received it!

who is rightful owner ? a great nephew ??? a cousin 2X removed no most likely the family member who sold it !! So I sell my grandparents couch and a few months later my 2nd cousin remembers hey i loved that couch I better go get it !!  give it back to me !! don't care what you paid for it I sat on I when I was 3 give me It back.  same thing

Again I was willing to help you ! what I buy sell trade is my business what I paid or sold it for my business !

not yours or anyone else .

you come to this forum seeking help then lash out !  you ask me about ethics yet you think nothing of judging collectors by your ideas and something you read on another website about engraved medals. You asked my help I began to search for buyer to connect you with  him and then you assault me and other collectors.

I have family medals missing I have been searching for what ever reason were sold or lost what ever ? I started collecting medals  to find mine so they don't end up forgotten I am not rich so sometimes I sell sometimes I trade .

I hope if I ever find my families items I will treat who ever has them better than what you have ! I would buy them back or work something out I would not judge a collector or dealer or whoever bottom line I would not DISREPECT someone who contacted me right away and offered to help me search .

HOPE YOU LUCK !!!  RESPECT ME I WILL RESPECT YOU !

 

Edited September 1, 2015 by scottplen

[Brian Wolfe]

Hello John,

As you can see and have demonstrated the subject of named medals can generate a lot of passion.  I purchased a grouping of WWI medals from a co-worker a number of years ago as she didn't want them in her house and the family had long stopped speaking, for what reason I do not know.  The next day se arrived at work with four boxes full of documents and photos of her family that went back to the late 1800s.  I really didn't want them but she plunked them on my desk and said that if I didn't want them then I was to throw the lot in the dumpster!  I feel like the archivest for this family's history.  I did track down her brother and was rudly told where I could shove the family photos and documents. 

There are many reasons why family members sell their ancestor's medals and to say that it is unethical to purchase them may indeed result in the medals being trashed, as would have been the case in my story above.  Many of us spend years researching the recipients of the medals we have in our collections.  Not for profit as many of us will no doubt pass away and our families will have to dispose of the collections.  Most of us are historians and keeping the stories about the recipients of the medals alive somehow keeps then alive as well. 

I wish you luck in your attempts to recover the medal and hope you are sucessful.  Just keep in mind that the medal is probably in the hands of a collector who has broken no laws in securing it.  I think you will find the vast majority of us more than willing to help you regain the ownership of the medal, at least until a family member a few decades from now decided to once again sell it...it happens.

Respectfully,

Brian Wolfe

[John Staly]

Cheers Brian.

Edited September 1, 2015 by John Staly

[Chris Boonzaier]

I have quite a few hundred groups in my collection.... all were sold at some stage by the family. I would suggest the amoral person in such stories is always the family member who sells, whether they do it to pay for a car, hookers or drugs. THEY are the ones who did not care about their relative.

A guy like Scott has done more to preserve the memory of the family than the relative who sold it... way more.

As far as reuniting goes... sure... if a family member wants to buy the item in my collection I will consider reuniting with the family.... but not for free.

If my family lives in the same house for 3 Generations... and I decide I don't like a Rural Mansion, I will sell the house and use the money to buy a houseboot which sinks off the coast of Australia in 10 years time.... what would the owner of the Rural Mansion say if my son then turned up in 15 years and said "Hey, that's not fair, you are living in my ancestral home!"

Somewhere in the chain there was a Family member who did the dirty... the rest of the family should be happy there was a collector there to save the day... and if they ask really really nicely... that collector may sell it back to the family...

just my 2c worth.....

 

[Stuka f]

I get most of my stuff from house clearings, flee markets or (not specialized) auction houses.

There is nothing so sad and so exiting at the same time as seeing  medals(engraved or not!) lying among other junk on the floor,to be sold.

Mostly by the relatives. But then again you never know how a item got there were it is now.

It could be stolen, given, or even rescued from the bin.

I know even story's of veterans , happy to get some extra money for the medals they had there lying for years.

So if you find stuf of your relatives be glad you can pay for them to get them, most people (who would want theyre relatives medals!) doe not get that lucky!