Welsh Ranks on Police LSGC medals.

[bigjarofwasps]

Ladies/Gents,

I was pondering the concept of why Welsh forces can't have Cwnst instead of Const for example on the rim of their LSGC's. Surely this would be covered by the Welsh language act? I wonder why it has been approached before, maybe it has? 

Anyone got any thoughts or opinions they'd like the share on the matter? 

 

From a collector researching aspect, if would certainly narrow down the field significantly wouldn't it? 

 

 

Welsh Ranks

Constable - Cwnstabl

Sergeant - Rhingyll

Inspector - Arolygydd

Chief Inspector - Prif Arolygydd

Superintendent - Uwcharolygydd

Chief Superintendent - Prif Uwcharolygydd

Chief Constable - Prif Cwnstabl

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by bigjarofwasps

[paul wood]

Start that and the Scottish Police in the western Isles will want it in Gaelic, the Cornish Constabulary in Cornish  and the Isle of Man Police in Manx.

Paul

[bigjarofwasps]

1 hour ago, paul wood said:

Start that and the Scottish Police in the western Isles will want it in Gaelic, the Cornish Constabulary in Cornish  and the Isle of Man Police in Manx.

Paul

Paul, duly noted. HOWEVER how many of these other locations have an act of parliament which makes it law to have things bilingually? 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Language_Act_1993

 

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by bigjarofwasps

[The Station Cat]

2 hours ago, paul wood said:

Start that and the Scottish Police in the western Isles will want it in Gaelic, the Cornish Constabulary in Cornish  and the Isle of Man Police in Manx.

Paul

That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing would it? Although why on earth they couldn't just put the force after the name is beyond me!!!!!

[paul wood]

Actually last time I was in the north of Scotland all signs were bi-lingual even though nobody in the North East speaks a word of Gaelic.

Paul

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

4 hours ago, bigjarofwasps said:

Ladies/Gents,

I was pondering the concept of why Welsh forces can't have Cwnst instead of Const for example on the rim of their LSGC's. Surely this would be covered by the Welsh language act? I wonder why it has been approached before, maybe it has? 

Anyone got any thoughts or opinions they'd like the share on the matter? 

 

From a collector researching aspect, if would certainly narrow down the field significantly wouldn't it? 

 

 

Welsh Ranks

Constable - Cwnstabl

Sergeant - Rhingyll

Inspector - Arolygydd

Chief Inspector - Prif Arolygydd

Superintendent - Uwcharolygydd

Chief Superintendent - Prif Uwcharolygydd

Chief Constable - Prif Cwnstabl

 

This is an interesting concept and I suppose it could be taken one step further than simply showing the rank in Welsh. Why are they awarding medals to Welsh forces which have on them ANY English wording? If the Act applies to showing the rank in Welsh then surely it must apply to the wording on the medal as a whole.

Dave. 

[bigjarofwasps]

2 hours ago, Dave Wilkinson said:

This is an interesting concept and I suppose it could be taken one step further than simply showing the rank in Welsh. Why are they awarding medals to Welsh forces which have on them ANY English wording? If the Act applies to showing the rank in Welsh then surely it must apply to the wording on the medal as a whole.

Dave. 

That I suppose would mean designing & minting an entirely new medal, I can't see them doing that, although it is an interesting concept. But I assume just changing the ranking would be pretty straight forward? 

[peter monahan]

I suspect that the answer lies in the issuing authroity and provenance of the awards, which is the Crown, which operates, as far as I know, solely in English, whatever linguistic vagaries the outlying bits of the realm practice. [Joking! Joking!]

 As to why it doesn't change, aside from the inevitable screams of outrage from traditionalists of the non-Celtic/Manx/Cornish sort, two answers which are really one: inertia and, to quote the wonderful show 'Yes, Minister', 'When it not necessary to act, it is necessary NOT to act.'

[Dave Wilkinson]

Being the politically correct Nation that we are you could bet your life that it would change if it was raised in Parliament by a sympathetic MP. But there again I suppose that it would be difficult to know where to draw the line. Would Welsh MOD employed staff demand a similar preferment in respect of their honours and awards?

Dave. 

[peter monahan]

Well, I'd buy an LSGC issued in Manx just for curiosity sake!

[Brett Hendey]

I think Peter has the answer.  The common language in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is English, and public servants should be acknowledged for their services in that language.  If the suggestion were to be copied in the Commonwealth, the result would be costly and confusing.  For example, South Africa has 11 official languages, and implementing the suggestion would require the establishment of another new government department, adding to the already bloated bureaucracy (....and higher taxes for those who bother to pay taxes).

Brett

[Odin Mk 3]

I haven't found any medals named in Welsh yet but today I was in a small local village (in deepest Wiltshire) and saw a Royal Mail van with Post Brenhinol on the side (Welsh for Royal Mail).  The postman explained they had just had two brand new vans consigned to their area from Wales and these hadn't been repainted. 

Also in the past when buying stamps at my local Post Office I have on several occasions been given stamps that were Welsh definitive issues and not standard UK stamps. 

Given all this infiltration by stealth I won't be surprised if someone starts campaigning for naming to be in the first language of the recipient (be it Welsh, Gaelic, Manx, Urdu, Hindi etc). 

[peter monahan]

Times have changes indeed.  My mother once sat and listened to a 'little Oriental looking man' - her description - deliver a few lines in a language which none of the 1,000+ people in the hall even recognized.  The language was Inuktitut and he was what we unreconstructed imperialists would call an 'Eskimo'.  He also displayed the numbered tag he was issued by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and our federal government, used to keep track of he and his kin because their names were 'too hard' for the bureuacrats who showed up once a year to hand out 'gifts' to the King/Queen's loyal subjects!

 I think I'd be ok with medals named in the recipient's original language, even if it did cost a couple bob more.  

[bigjarofwasps]

I have spoken with someone within HR and was informed that you can have your medal engraved in Welsh and it seems that loads of officers have chosen to have their medals engraved with such, so it appears there are examples out there, keep your eyes peeled!!!!

[Dave Wilkinson]

Speak to your HR again and ask if they can give you the name of an Officer locally who has recently had such a Welsh engraved medal awarded. A photo of the rim would, I'm sure, be of interest.

Dave.

 

[bigjarofwasps]

On 6/12/2016 at 07:31, Dave Wilkinson said:

Speak to your HR again and ask if they can give you the name of an Officer locally who has recently had such a Welsh engraved medal awarded. A photo of the rim would, I'm sure, be of interest.

Dave.

 

Dave, mission accomplished! Here we have it.............

Edited June 13, 2016 by bigjarofwasps

[bigjarofwasps]

CWNST

[Dave Wilkinson]

Get searching. You've got to have one!

Dave.

[peter monahan]

Yep, that's Welsh!  No vowels!  

[bigjarofwasps]

Here is an example of a  RHINGYLL (Sgt), you will note that the style of naming was stamp engraved as apposed to laser engraved. Which would suggest that this example was issued sometime ago? So it would appear that perhaps Welsh named medals have in fact been around for sometime..... 

Edited June 21, 2016 by bigjarofwasps

[The Station Cat]

On 6/21/2016 at 00:24, bigjarofwasps said:

Here is an example of a  RHINGYLL (Sgt), you will note that the style of naming was stamp engraved as apposed to laser engraved. Which would suggest that this example was issued sometime ago? So it would appear that perhaps Welsh named medals have in fact been around for sometime..... 

 

I wonder what the highest Welsh rank naming could be, that someone has achieved in 20 years before being awarded the LSGC. Has anyone ever got to Chief in 20 years? I don't think I've ever seen higher than Superintendent on an English LSGC. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2016 by The Station Cat

[Dave Wilkinson]

Please remember that the "20 year" provision is a very recent change to the Royal Warrant. I suspect that somewhere there will have been a Special Course (or otherwise) man to have reached the top within 22 years. Also, remember that when the PLS&GC medal was introduced in 1951, all those Chief Constables who were in post on the relevant date and who had 22 or more years approved service would have received a medal. Obviously, all other ranks below would have also received one. It follows that their respective ranks would be engraved as now. In 1951 there were some 127 county and borough police forces in Great Britain, not including the non-Home Office forces. So in theory I would estimate that there are probably 120 or so medals floating about bearing the rank of Chief Constable. This would be in addition to any awarded since the initial 1951 awards.

Dave.  

Edited June 22, 2016 by Dave Wilkinson

[Dave Wilkinson]

Since my previous posting on the subject, I am led to believe that Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley of the Metropolitan Police was awarded his Police Long Service & Good Conduct Medal several years ago whilst serving as Chief Constable of Surrey. I suspect that this is probably the most recent of a number. I'm unsure as to whether at the time he had served 20 or 22 years.

Dave. 

[bigjarofwasps]

1 hour ago, Dave Wilkinson said:

Since my previous posting on the subject, I am led to believe that Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley of the Metropolitan Police was awarded his Police Long Service & Good Conduct Medal several years ago whilst serving as Chief Constable of Surrey. I suspect that this is probably the most recent of a number. I'm unsure as to whether at the time he had served 20 or 22 years.

Dave. 

Dave, that's interesting so Mr ROWLEY was awarded his LSGC as the Chief of Surrey.

 

Going back to Welsh examples, I will keep ob's and see what the highest rank in Welsh naming I can find. If anyone else can assist, I for one would be very interested.

[bigjarofwasps]

It's been a couple of years now since, I started this thread. Would be interested to know if anyone has added a Welsh named medal to their collection yet?