Badischer Military Karl Friedrich Merit Order

[Stogieman]

Welcome saschaw! Good to have you here with us!

[medalnet]

..., but many of these are fakes, and others offered are (at least for me) to expensive

One of the definite detail one can determine the difference between the fake and the real silver gilt ones is the laurel leaf inbetween the cross arms. The real ones are extremly 3-dimensional layered. The fake ones are completly flat, just 2 dimensional.

[Stogieman]

I think the prices for the silver-gilt one are extreme. I've seen 1500- Euro and there's one in the US just under 5K USD! How nuts is that? Give me gold one any day........

[saschaw]

Thanks for the nice welcome, I think I'll like the MGIC ...

I think the prices for the silver-gilt one are extreme. I've seen 1500- Euro and there's one in the US just under 5K USD! How nuts is that? Give me gold one any day........

The one for ca. 5K USD is a real (IMHO much to expensive), but the ones for 1,500.- € might not be?

Would really be glad if someone offered me a original one for 1,500.- € ...

Just noticed I'm using the same avatar as dave Danner does - I'll remove it ...

(though I'm the Badenser, not he)

[Stogieman]

Hi Saschaw, yes, but David has a certain affinity for awards from Baden!

[saschaw]

Hi Saschaw, yes, but David has a certain affinity for awards from Baden!

Oh oh oh, I do also - you can believe me

Edited April 19, 2006 by saschaw

[Dave Danner]

My grandfather was born in a small village near Freiburg im Breisgau. I used to live in Heidelberg, and when I was in law school, I spent some time as a student at Ruprecht-Karls-Universit?t.

[saschaw]

My grandfather was born in a small village near Freiburg im Breisgau. I used to live in Heidelberg, and when I was in law school, I spent some time as a student at Ruprecht-Karls-Universit?t.

Ah ja, good to know.

I Changed my avatar - have read some old postings and thought firstly - hugh, it can't be me who has postet this months ago

I do not have a real Karl Friedrich by now, but only one ribbon bar - hope to change this very soon ...

(some WAF members (sorry can't remember who it was) were down to five or six possible men, among these G?ring and L?rzer)

Edited April 19, 2006 by saschaw

[saschaw]

Oh oh oh, got quiet here in ...

I loved to own also one, but many of these are fakes, and others offered are (at least for me) to expensive

Hmm, time changes everything, doesn't it?

Here's my "Karl Friedrich", also 3rd modell 1916-1918, silver gilt. Made by Zimmermann, Pforzheim.

BTW, it was perchased from C. Zeige, Hamburg in June auction ...

Edited August 29, 2006 by saschaw

[Ralph A]

Here is a miniature I picked up recently.

[Ralph A]

Details:

[Deruelle]

Beautiful miniature Ralph

Christophe

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

Here is an example which is a little different from what we see so far.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[saschaw]

Great, just great, these Karl Friedrichs ...

Here an old one in wear, with a "white and black" Iron Cross IInd and Ist class !!!

The awards are:

- Baden, Orden vom Z?hringer L?wen, Kommandeurkreuz II. Klasse mit Schwertern;

- Preu?en, Roter Adler-Orden II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub;

- Preu?en, Kronenorden II. Klasse mit Stern;

- ?sterreich, Franz Joseph-Orden, Kommandeurkreuz I. Klasse(?);

- Baden, Orden vom Z?hringer L?wen, Kommandeurkreuz I. Klasse;

- Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz 1870 I. Klasse;

- Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz 1870 II. Klasse am wei?-schwarzen Band;

- Baden, Milit?r-Karl Friedrich-Verdienstorden, Ritterkreuz (II. Modell);

- Preu?en, Kriegsdenkm?nze 1870/71 am Band f?r Combattanten, in Stahl oder Bronze(?);

- Baden, Felddienst-Auszeichnung mit zwei Gefechtsspangen;

- Baden, Ged?chtnismedaille 1849;

- Baden, Dienstauszeichnungskreuz II. Klasse;

- ?sterreich, Orden der Eisernen Krone III. Klasse;

- no idea ???

- no idea ???

- no idea ???

I would appreciate if you helped me with the three last awards. My help for you: it is Dr. Bernhard Beck, Oberstabsarzt und Feldlazarett-Direktor. I hope this helps ...

[saschaw]

Closer ...

[saschaw]

Even closer ...

[Dave Danner]

Beck was Generalarzt of the XIV. Armeekorps in 1876. The BZ2bX was awarded in 1871.

Beck was born on 27 October 1821 in Freiburg im Breisgau (where my family is from). He died on 10 September 1894 in Freiburg im Breisgau. By then, he had been elevated to the nobility, so he was Dr. med. Bernhard von Beck. He was also a Gro?herzoglich Badischer Geheimer Rat 1. Klasse and a K?niglich Preussischer Generalarzt I. Klasse a.D. mit dem Rang als Generalmajor.

The first unidentified medal is the Austrian Kriegsmedaille. Beck served as a military surgeon with the Austrian Army in the 1848 and 1849 Italians campaigns. The FDA should have the Spangen for 1866 and for 1870-71.

I have a 10-page biography of Dr. von Beck if you want it.

[Dave Danner]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. The last decoration on the bar is the Ducal Nassau Military and Civil Merit Order of Adolph of Nassau, Knight 1st Class with Swords.

Edited June 10, 2007 by Dave Danner

[Dave Danner]

Here is the ranklist entry from the 1876 Baden Hof- und Staatshandbuch showing the Nassau order, among others:

[Dave Danner]

The first unidentified medal is the Austrian Kriegsmedaille. Beck served as a military surgeon with the Austrian Army in the 1848 and 1849 Italians campaigns. The FDA should have the Spangen for 1866 and for 1870-71.

I have a 10-page biography of Dr. von Beck if you want it.

Scratch part of what I said. The second unidentified medal is the Austrian Kriegsmedaille. The first unidentified medal is the Austrian large gold Zivil-Verdienstmedaille. Page 9 below says he received it in 1848 from Graf Radetzky himself. The same page says he was ennobled by the Grand Duke of Baden in 1882.

Here are the links to the biography (actually a necrology written by his son). They are in PNG format. I couldn't put them all into one document.

http://home.att.net/~dave.danner/militaria/beck_0.png

http://home.att.net/~dave.danner/militaria/beck_1.png

http://home.att.net/~dave.danner/militaria/beck_2.png

http://home.att.net/~dave.danner/militaria/beck_3.png

http://home.att.net/~dave.danner/militaria/beck_4.png

http://home.att.net/~dave.danner/militaria/beck_5.png

http://home.att.net/~dave.danner/militaria/beck_6.png

http://home.att.net/~dave.danner/militaria/beck_7.png

http://home.att.net/~dave.danner/militaria/beck_8.png

http://home.att.net/~dave.danner/militaria/beck_9.png

http://home.att.net/~dave.danner/militaria/beck_10.png

[Deruelle]

Hi everybody,

I have a photo of Karl Ens (here wearing the RK). Ens received in WW1 the following medals

EK2

EK1

HHO3X

BV3

BZ3bX

Wounded badge in silver

But the most important here is the ribbon on the second button. He's wearing the Baden BV3 with green wreath.

Christophe

[Deruelle]

A closue up of the BV3 ribbon with wreath

[Stogieman]

That's pretty neat... I haven't seen many ww2 era photos with Imperial decorations in the button hole!!

[Wild Card]

Hello Gentlemen,

I have a question with regard to the picture (post #40) of Dr. Beck. It appears that he is wearing a Zahringer Lion Kommandeuerkreuz with swords and a Kommandeuerkreuz without swords at the same time. I realize that your list shows them both; but even though they are different classes, is it proper (regulation) for both to be worn simultaneously?

Thank you for your post Saschaw - a great picture.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

Edited June 27, 2007 by Wild Card

[saschaw]

Thanks Dave, that "some" great infomation on von Beck ...

I have a question with regard to the picture (post #40) of Dr. Beck. It appears that he is wearing a Zahringer Lion Kommandeuerkreuz with swords and a Kommandeuerkreuz without swords at the same time. I realize that your list shows them both; but even though they are different classes, is it proper (regulation) for both to be worn simultaneously?

Yes, this is indeed proper as long as one decoration has swords and the other one doesn't have. Even if both were the same grade, this fits. These here aren't actually the same grades as it's a commander's cross Ist class (without swords) and a commander's cross IInd class with swords.

Oakleaves - von Beck has none - would not matter in this issue, as they are just a higher grade than without. Any combination of Z?hringer with and without swords might be possible - and I love medal bars with both ...

Edit:

But actually, we're offtopic with this in the Karl Friedrich thread ...

Edited June 27, 2007 by saschaw