2 Ribbon Bars - Lippe House Order with Swords

[Nicolas7507]

Hello,

I just received these interesting ribbon bars with the Lippe House Order with Swords. I do not know any exact award numbers, but heard that those are extremly seldom.

The second ribbon on the short ribbon bar is still unknown to me, maybe it is a KO4 or KO3 and the recipient decided to only wear his Wartime Awards on the longer ribbon bar?

Any attempts for an ID would be greatly appreciated.

All the Best,

Nicolas

[Daniel Krause]

Sehr schön!

Robert Strehle, geb. 1879

1914 Hauptmann Feuerwerkslaboratorium Siegburg, later at the WUMBA - Weapons and Ammunitions office.

These rear area guys were usually extraordinary good decorated...as you can see.

Your guess is right, Crown 4 on the shorter bar. Later most likely he did just wear wartime stuff.

 

Greetings

Daniel

[Nicolas7507]

Klasse!

Thank you so much Daniel. That is great news.

Do you have anything more concerning his career?

I could not find him in the Reichswehr Ranklist 1928, but I guess he was retired until then.

In 1913 he was Oberleutnant Feuerwerkslaboratorium Siegburg.

All the Best,

Nicolas

Edited June 11, 2019 by Nicolas7507

[Daniel Krause]

born 10.05.1879 in Sigmaringen-Hohenzollern- that explains his Hohenzollern 3rd class with swords, retired after WW1 as Captain. Most likely too young for a character bump to Major.

His Lippe 4th class 1st Abt. was awarded 12.09.1917

Can check some other award dates as well later.

 

Greetings

Daniel

[Nicolas7507]

Thanks for the dates Daniel! 

All the Best

Nicolas 

[arb]

Nicolas,

Here is his short pre-war career.  Sorry, nothing definitive about his wartime service, though, as Daniel said, he served with WUMBA, like the vast majority of those officers within the "technischen Instituten"

Andy

Robert Strehle  (10.05.1879-??)

22.03.14-1914       Verwaltungsmitglied d. Feuerw. Lab. i. Siegburg

01.10.08-22.03.14   k.z. Dienstl. b. Feuerw. Lab. i. Siegburg

01.10.05-30.09.08   k.z. Militärtechn. Akad.

27.01.02-01.10.05   in 6./Feldart. R. 67  (Bischweiler)

27.01.02            Leutn.

23.03.01            Fähnr.

 Hptm.     08-10-14 S16s*

Oberlt.   27-01-11 L8l

Leutn.    27-01-02 Kk

*ern.     22-03-14

 

 

[Nicolas7507]

Andy,

Thanks for posting Strehle's Pre-War Career! Very helpful as always!

By the way it seems that the Lippe House Order 4th Class with Swords 1.Abteilung was only awarded 82 times. Pretty interesting that a rear guy like Strehle was awarded by Lippe several times although being from Sigmaringen-Hohenzollern himself.

Best regards,

Nicolas

Edited June 12, 2019 by Nicolas7507

[arb]

Nicolas,

You are very welcome.  It is unfortunate that history tends to gloss over the contributions of those who did not serve on the front lines.  Efforts of men such as Strehle to produce and improve the weapons and ammunition vital to the war effort are largely ignored.  However, awards such as those he received show the importance of their work to those who understood their true value. 

Congratulations on a very nice set of bars!!!

Andy

[Nicolas7507]

That is very true, Andy. Thank you very much for your kind words.

Despite the rarity of the Lippe House Order with Swords I could recently acquire another ribbon bar with it.

Is there a possibility of IDing this one? I am not sure if the second ribbon is the Carl-Friedrich Order or just the Merit Medal.

 

Alll the Best

Nicolas

[Daniel Krause]

good question, there were no holders of Karl Friedrich AND a LDH4 with swords, so I am fairly sure, this might be a silver merit medal to a guy later promoted to Lt.

What makes me wonder is the fact the no Lippe War merit cross is there. Awards of the House Order without a previous War merit cross did happen, but quite rarely.

 

Greetings

Daniel

[Nicolas7507]

Thanks for your reply. The missing Lippe KVK is a bit strange, but I like the construction of the bar in general and do not see any red flags. Maybe just a rare exception?

Best regards

Nicolas

[Solomon]

? Nice ribbonbar...would fit exactly in my collection!

On his revers for the LDH4 with swords Robert Franz Strehle noted in the column "other awards and orders" on 12th September 1917:
E.K.2
Pr.K.O.4
Bayr.Mil.Verd.Ord. 4 m. Schw.
Würtb. Ritterkr. I Kl. m. Schw. des Friedr.Ord.
Lipp.Kr.Verd.Kr.
Hamb.Hanseaten Kr.
Hess.Kr.Ehrenzeichen

Regards
Roman

Edited June 14, 2019 by Solomon

[Nicolas7507]

Hi Roman.

thank you very much for the additional information on Robert Strehle!

Best regards

Nicolas

[Dave Danner]

On 13/06/2019 at 05:07, Daniel Krause said:

good question, there were no holders of Karl Friedrich AND a LDH4 with swords, so I am fairly sure, this might be a silver merit medal to a guy later promoted to Lt.

What makes me wonder is the fact the no Lippe War merit cross is there. Awards of the House Order without a previous War merit cross did happen, but quite rarely.

 

Greetings

Daniel

Two possible scenarios:

1. The Kriegsverdienstkreuz was established on 8 December 1914. The first awards to IR 55 officers were on 13 December 1914 and the first awards to IR 55 NCOs and men were not until 26 May 1915. Before then, officers received the House Order and NCOs and men received the Militärverdienstmedaille. So there were some who received the LDH or the LMVM first, and never received the LK later. This would not fit with this ribbon bar, though, given the Baden Merit Medal, since he would have to have been an officer at the beginning of the war.

2. The formerly ruling House of Lippe made a number of retroactive awards in the 1920s and 1930s. Since the Ehrenkreuz was a house order, they had the authority to make awards, but the Kriegsverdienstkreuz was a state decoration. The last awards of the Kriegsverdienstkreuz were made in 1920-21, though many were backdated to November 1918. So this could have been a Badener who received the Merit Medal as an NCO, was commissioned a Lt., and was perhaps nominated for the Kriegsverdienstkreuz, but it was not approved in time. So after the war he contacted the former ruling house, and was awarded the Ehrenkreuz instead.

[Nicolas7507]

Very interesting! Thanks alot Dave! 

 

[Nicolas7507]

On 13/06/2019 at 10:47, Nicolas7507 said:

That is very true, Andy. Thank you very much for your kind words.

Despite the rarity of the Lippe House Order with Swords I could recently acquire another ribbon bar with it.

Is there a possibility of IDing this one? I am not sure if the second ribbon is the Carl-Friedrich Order or just the Merit Medal.

 

Alll the Best

Nicolas

 

Unfortunately this ribbon bar was lost during transport. If anyone sees it by chance, please contact me.

 

Nicolas