War Honor Cross for Heroic Deeds with the original case

[Paul C]

The second is very intesting and has the Lippe, PC3 order of christ 3rds class for Protagal and the Wurttemberg award - all for a reserve officer. Try as I might I can not ID the officer.

[Guest Rick Research]

B?hmer is a false clue, it seems-- NOBODY by that name received ANY grade of the -Detmold House Order with Xs during the war.

The rolls are huge clearly written perfect records, but nooooooo B?hmer.

No grades of Verdienstkreuz or Verdienstmedaille were given with Xs during the war. He could only have potentially received the Order IV-bX since he was still only a Leutnant in the photo. I did look at the IV-aX ones too, but they were all Hauptleute and Majors.

Schaumburg's rolls are MUCH messier and hard to read, but it doesn't look like they gave out ANY awards of the House Order with swords during the war, at all. Not surprising, with how few -Detmold gave out.

I wonder if the ribbon is not actually the House Order (metallic edges) but the Milit?rverdienstmedaille--for wounds? It should NOT be in that position, but nothing else seems to fit.

[attachmentid=48562]

[Solomon]

I wonder if the ribbon is not actually the House Order (metallic edges) but the Milit?rverdienstmedaille--for wounds? It should NOT be in that position, but nothing else seems to fit.

Thank you Rick for your help

I have to go to the archive and I have to find his signed receipt of the honor-cross for heroic deeds, because this seems to be the only way, to find out who he really is.

The MVM (military-merit-medal) is impossible at this position. It had to be mounted after the Kriegsverdienstkreuz (war merit cross Lippe) in any case.

It is also quite impossible that he got the MVM for wounds:

There were exactely 55 awards of the MVM for wounded soldiers. They were all soldiers of the

55th regiment (6. Westf. Infanterie-Regiment Graf B?low von Dennewitz Nr. 55 = the only regiment from Lippe).

These medals were all (!!) without swords - a provisional wartime-award, awarded in December of 1914.

And -not like the other medals without swords - these awards had not to be changed into the the MVM with swords!

But I haven?t any other proposal, what else it can be

Quite a difficult case...

Greetings

Solomon

[Solomon]

B?hmer is a false clue, it seems-- NOBODY by that name received ANY grade of the -Detmold House Order with Xs during the war.

The rolls are huge clearly written perfect records, but nooooooo B?hmer.

No grades of Verdienstkreuz or Verdienstmedaille were given with Xs during the war. He could only have potentially received the Order IV-bX since he was still only a Leutnant in the photo. I did look at the IV-aX ones too, but they were all Hauptleute and Majors.

Schaumburg's rolls are MUCH messier and hard to read, but it doesn't look like they gave out ANY awards of the House Order with swords during the war, at all. Not surprising, with how few -Detmold gave out.

I wonder if the ribbon is not actually the House Order (metallic edges) but the Milit?rverdienstmedaille--for wounds? It should NOT be in that position, but nothing else seems to fit.

Hehe...I won! And Rick has to clean his glasses.

The man is:

Kurt August Karl B?hmer, born December, 13th in 1889 in Detmold.

He got the following awards (and I have to correct myself):

IC 2nd class 1914

LDH4 B with swords (on November, 10th in 1918 / No. 195 (?))

LD war merit cross

LD merit cross for heroic deeds

Turkish Gallipoli star

Bulgaria merit cross 5. class with swords

The missing ribbon might be after 1933.

He was Leutenant der Reserve in 1919.

I have his signed receipt in copy...there is no doubt!

Greetings

Solomon

Edited April 18, 2007 by Solomon

[Guest Rick Research]

Right you are and THANKS! Funny initial in the new clerk's handwriting threw me off.

He was also on the roll WITHOUT the designation "mit X" which I knew had to be wrong on the rolls and you have confirmed.

Here are a few more names for you to please check and verify in the LDH4bX roll that the last days' entries are wrong. These have NO Xs designation, but MUST have been X awards:

GEBHARD, Georg 11.11.18 #177

GRONEMEYER, August 8.11.18 #192

PETRI, Konrad #196 12.11.18

while I think this one is WRONG "mit X" and should be "ohne X"--

BERTSCH, Benjamin 8.11.18 #198

Some entries I have noted are wrong on the rolls, for instance LDH4bX #169 to Dr. Friedrich Becker, a hometown Doctor, is actually a no Xs LDH4a recorded on the same day (30.5.18).

Between us, we can correct the errors from 1918.

[dond]

I think someone is about to get hosed, or I haven't learned anything here.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Lippe-War-Honor-C...1QQcmdZViewItem

[Ferg1]

I am glad that someone else has noticed this cross on ebay,it seems to be making serious cash. Not bad for a badly converted second class piece. I checked ,just to make sure, the cross is only 40mm x40mm the real thing should be 45mmx45mm.If one looks to the reverse you can still see the remains of the pebbled finish on the left arm , they didn't quite grind it all away!! STAY AWAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ferg1.

[Solomon]

Yes, I also won?t buy it...

There is a certain number of pinback-crosses of the war merit cross Lippe-Detmold...but there is a small problem:

This (often called "1st class") cross was never spent

So it?s a question of believing if these crosses are prototypes....

IMO the shown cross is a fake (also because of its wrong size).

Solomon

[Stogieman]

The seller is from Texas, has a couple of user id's and sells quite a few fakes that are really well worked over and very well done. A bit of a hobby for him it would seem...

[dond]

Can we put a maker to this one?

[Solomon]

Hmmm difficult to say but for sure not a original Zimmermann-piece.

I don´t like it...sorry.

Edited September 28, 2018 by Solomon

[dond]

I feel the same way. I've held it in my hand and am not a fan. I think it is from the "Club."