Rare combinations

[filfoster]

From my online survey, it appears that the Order of the Iron Crown and the Franz Joseph Order medals almost never appear on medal bars together. Why?

[laurentius]

On German medalbars or with Austrian medalbars?

[filfoster]

Austrian. I have read in one source that the Franz Joseph Order was most often awarded for non-combat service, but many officers received decorations for both combat and non-fighting service, so I'm not sure that explains it.

 

I have searched this forum and online including photos of generals and field marshals of the WW1 era and can't find one example of both worn on a medal bar together. 

Edited April 3, 2021 by filfoster

[Ian]

I assume you are talking about the EKO-R3 and the FJO-R?                                                   I can provide two names of those whom were awarded an EKO-R3 and an FJO-R.

Feldmarschalleutnant Theodor Ritter von Soretic and Feldmarschalleutnant Alfred Groschl.  

 

There are others and I will look through my references today.

 

Cheers,

Ian

Edited April 3, 2021 by Ian
Information correction

[Ian]

A small sample those awarded the EKO-R3 and an FJO-R that I was able to locate.

FML Gustav Szekely de Doba

FML Franz Ritter Weiss-Tihanyi von Mainprugg

FML Viktor Serverus Edler von Laubenfeld und Ciminago

FML Karl Wondre Edler von Carynskie

GM Nikloaus Karapancsa Edler von Kraina

GM Gustav Fisher Edler von POturzyn

GM Karl Petersilka Edler von Hocbergen

 

PS: There are others who received the EKO-R2 and an FJO-R.  For example, FML Georg Komma, FML Franz Szends von Fulekkelecseny and GM Adam Nowotny.

[filfoster]

I hope we can find some pictures of these. I assume the EKO-R3 would precede the FJO-R?

[Ian]

Yes, the EKO-R3 proceeded the FJO-R.  

 

FML Julius Carossa - Austrian National Archives

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Ian

[filfoster]

Ian: Thank you!  Both the Iron Crown and the Franz Joseph look like non-combatant awards...no laurel leaves on the Iron Crown and the FJ is not on the war ribbon. I don't think it would make a difference if they were otherwise, as far as precedence, yes?

[Ian]

I couldn't locate any 'war time' awards in my photo data base to amplify the point. 

 

I am reasonably certain that it would make little if any difference, but others, more knowledgeably, may be able to clarify the issue. 

[Christian1962]

I can add some names:

 

Generalstabsarrzt Dr. Karl Brenner

12.02.1915 Ritterkreuz FJO+KD+X

05.05.1920 EKO 3+KD+X (nachträglich)

 

Generalstabsarzt Dr. Ernst Dub

Ritterkreuz FJO+KD

EKO 3+KD+X

 

Generalstabsarzt Dr. Josef Feix

04.04.1915 Ritterkreuz FJO+KD

00.00.1920 EKO 3+KD (nachträglich)

 

Generalstabsarzt DDr. Erhard Glaser

23.01.1915 EKO 3+KD

12.10.1915 Offizierskreuz FJO+KD

 

Generalstabsarzt Dr. Ignaz Hofer

07.04.1915 Ritterkreuz FJO-KD

00.00.1920 EKO 3+KD+X (nachträglich)

 

Generalstabsarzt Dr. Ignaz Kauder

22.02.1915 Ritterkreuz FJO+KD+X

00.00.1919 EKO 3 +KD+X (nachträglich)

 

Generalstabsarzt Dr. Adolf Knobel

09.03.1915 Ritterkreuz FJO+KD

23.05.1917 EKO 3+KD+X

 

Generalstabsarzt Dr. Jakob Lochbihler

24.12.1915 Offizierskreuz FJO-KD

15.12.1917 EKO 3+KD

 

Generalstabsarzt Dr. Emil Mattauchschek

18.03.1915 Ritterkreuz FJO+KD

00.00.19__ EKO 3+KD

 

Generalarzt z.V. Dr. Gottfried Nickl

11.03.1918 Rittekrreuz FJO+KD+X

00.00.19__ EKO 3+KD+X (nachträglich)

 

(out of a list of 70 Generalstabsärzte ÖBH)

etc., ect.

 

In general it´s to say: Order of Franz Joseph was bestowed for wartime service of medical officers, support and supply officers, Pioniere and Sappeure, Train etc. EKO 3+KD(+X) was awarded for frontline service under fire. But in some cases there was awarded EKO+KD(+X) as second decoration for the before mentioned group of officers.

 

It was more simple for me to extract my list of medical officers. But there were others too. Maybe I will have a second look tomorrow and can provide more names.....

 

There is a Train-officer:

 

Generalmajor Dr.h.c. Carl Graser

06.12.1917 Ritterkreuz FJO+KD

01.12.1920 EKO 3+KD (nachträglich)

 

Regards

 

Christian

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2021 by Christian1962

[Ian]

Christian,

 

Excellent and thank you.  

 

Ian

[Christian1962]

Here are some more:

 

Generalmajor Arthur Zar:

28.03.1918 FJO-R+KD

24.08.1918 EKO 3+KD+X

 

Generalleutnant Rudolf Busich:

15.06.1916 FJO-R+KD+X

00.00.19__ EKO 3+KD

 

Generalmajor Kurt Hermann von Herrenalb:

05.03.1917 FJO-O+KD

24.03.1918 EKO 3+KD

 

Generalstabsarzt Dr. Franz Zhuber von Okrog:

22.02.1915 FJO-R+KD

04.02.1917 EKO 3+KD

 

Generalintendant Ludwig Eitel:

13.08.1915 FJO-R (it´s to assume with KD)

19.03.1918 EKO 3+KD

 

Generalintendant August Fratz:

11.05.1916 FJO-R+KD+X

02.12.1917 EKO 3+KD

 

Generalintendant Ludwig Kramberger:

23.12.1914 FJO-R+KD

07.02.1917 EKO 3+KD

 

Generalintendant Josef Lamatsch Edler von Waffenstein:

12.05.1915 FJO-R+KD+X

17.02.1916 FJO-O+KD+X

00.00.19__ EKO 3+KD+X

 

Generalintendant Ferdinand Lanzendörfer:

13.08.1915 FJO-R+KD

19.03.1918 EKO 3+KD

 

Generalintendant Heinrich Freiherr von Raabl-Werner:

13.08.1915 FJO-R (it´s to assume with KD)

16.03.1918 EKO 3+KD

00.00.1920 FJO-O+KD (nachträglich)

 

Generalintendant Anton Richter:

15.09.1915 FJO-R+KD+X

15.04.1920 EKO 3+KD+X (nachträglich)

 

Generalintendant Johann Schrböck:

22.02.1915 FJO-R+KD

18.12.1917 EKO 3+KD

 

Generaltintnendant Moritz Skutetzky:

06.06.1915 FJO-O+KD

26.02.1917 EKO 3+KD

 

Generalintendant Karl Urbauer:

10.07.1915 FJO-R+KD

20.06.1917 EKO 3+KD

 

I could just provide data for later Bundesheer-Generals, but you can see it was not as rare as people would think.

 

Regards

 

Christian

 

 

 

[Ian]

Christian,

 

A little of topic but I am wondering if you have any information on the individual awards to either  ÖBH Generalstabsärzte Johann Richter (21.10.1865 - 06. 1961) or ÖBH Generalstabsärzte Maximilian Haager ( 04.01.1871 – 24.03.1934) in particular post was Heller Commission awards please?

 

Regards,

 

Ian

Edited April 6, 2021 by Ian
Additional Info

[1812 Overture]

[filfoster]

The tentative conclusion is that this combination was not worn by the 'big shots' who held active field commands in WW1, for example, prominent field marshals or colonel generals. Pity, as it's an attractive medal (FJ order).