Chris Boonzaier Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 Hi, does anyone know which language this is? It is on a picture frame with a horseshoe entwined with 2 dragons... Thanks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 28, 2022 Share Posted January 28, 2022 No photo - sorry can't help Regards v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 28, 2022 Author Share Posted January 28, 2022 Sorry, here it is.... The horseshoe also seems out of place.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 It is the old (early 20th century and before) kanji lettering - formerly used by China and e.g. Japan, still used in Taiwan The Dragon depicts 3 claws so it indicates two things; 1. it could have been made for a Chinese commoner (emperor 5 claws, high nobility 4, commoners 3) 2. it could have been made for a Japanese customer (Japanese dragons depict 3 claws) or any other foreign market. The bottom line (reading from right to left) the first character could also mean Italy (it's not easy to interpret kanji letters into a today's meaning) at least for me Since the dragon itself is a lucky symbol in e.g. China or Japan the adding of a horseshoe points to a Western (Italy) customer. Can't help you more right now. Regards v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 Hi, thanks, with the italy in the text it may be that the metal part was made in italy for export? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 The character indicates both, made in Italy or produced for Italy My personal guess, Made in Italia Regards v.Perlet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1812 Overture Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 On 29/01/2022 at 17:10, v.Perlet said: The character indicates both, made in Italy or produced for Italy My personal guess, Made in Italia Regards v.Perlet 實用新案登錄 第八八六四號 意匠登錄 My friend, I checked it out. The traditional Chinese character "Yijiang Login" is actually Japanese, and its Chinese meaning is: Pattern Registration. The number above is the registration number: No. 8864. So it's not Italian. In addition, modern Chinese is read from left to right, in the past it was from right to left. But I forget how Japan sees it. So it's made in Japan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) Hello 1812 Overture, okay you are Chinese - I am a German, so you got the advantage? I had send a photo to some of my Chinese friends (all going to school in the 60-80s' onward) none of them can read it, also not their parents. (whereas the parents includes two retired teachers). therefore I have to assume that it is the Kanji writing of before 1910/20. of which I have extremely limited knowledge. Since we both know, that a pin-jin character stands for 4 different words/meanings but a Kanji letter only for one - therefore kanji encompasses around 80,000 characters whilst pin-jin "only" beholds around 8000 characters and characters can be joined to form different words - In Kanji you can't, at least not to my knowledge? Only those vivid Japanese manage to do this with their remaining 500? characters. Maybe you meant to say something else, but a Chinese character certainly doesn't derive from Japanese. ! 1. It is not modern Chinese Characters - the previous Kanji writing was changed around 1910'20 and again simplified in the late 70's early 80's. in China. Henceforth being referred to as Pin-Yin. If I am correct also in Japan via reducing thousands of Kanji characters to around 500. And old Chinese writing (Kanji) is read from right to left. E.g. HK, Taiwan, and Chinese written newspapers in Malaysia or Singapore also still sometimes use the non-simplified kanji, aka the old Chinese writing. (the latter place is where I grew up and went to school) 2. If you would read it as you say from left to right, then the number would be 4688, but you yourself say and state correctly 8864 - So you are also reading it from right to left. (at least the numbers). And reading from left to right would mean: Dragon, Mounted, Table, New, Use, True/Indented - sounds a bit weird? 3. Bottom line from right to left reads Yi Chang 1st character on the right being Yi 2nd character from the right being Chang 4. you wrote Login (actually Long jin - which is modern Chinese pin-yin for Golden Dragon 龍金 but the Kanji character stands only for Dragon 錄 Chang - stands to my understanding for highly or very skilled worker Yi Chang in sequence could mean Italian, highly skilled Worker. Besides the 3 claws - I fail to understand as were you see anything on the board in regards to being made in Japan. 日本 Looking forward to your kind reply Regards Andreas Edited February 17, 2022 by v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1812 Overture Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Since you are a German living in China, you must know Baidu, right? I just use simplified characters to convert traditional characters, and then put the results obtained by Baidu search. Please see this link: https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/268056776.html https://www.dancihu.com/rihan/i/ishoutouroku74938.htm I think you're a stubborn German. . No wonder the Chinese think Germans are stereotyped, now I feel it too So, I want to say again, this has nothing to do with Italy. Not everything that contains the word "意" has anything to do with Italy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) On 29/01/2022 at 02:24, Chris Boonzaier said: Hi, does anyone know which language this is? It is on a picture frame with a horseshoe entwined with 2 dragons... Thanks Chris Hello Chris, today I finally got to meet my Chinese friend and history professor. The Characters are old Chinese - Traditional Chinese, and those used before the 1920's. They are naturally read from right to left. Every individual Character stands for it's own word/meaning - one can not combine those Characters So my translation according to traditional Chinese is actually almost correct - the Character I defined to be that of Dragon is wrong and the 1st character (bottom line) could mean Italy - but also something totally different. However the fun part is the bottom line (4 Characters) these are only meaningful in Japanese as such my translation approach was wrong since Japanese characters can be put together to form a very different meaning. In conclusion the Board's writing is in traditional Chinese characters - but spoken/translated according to Japanese meanings/wordings. Translation from Japanese to English Top line: 實用 新案 登錄 New proposals for smaller works - in German it sounds better; Neuer Vorschlag für kleinere Arbeiten 2nd line: 第八八六四號 Article No. 8864 3rd line: 意匠 登録 Design Registration Regards v.Perlet Edited February 18, 2022 by v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 My humble tribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, JapanX said: My humble tribute. Wo liest Du da "für"? Regards V.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Irgendwo in der Nähe "Hergestellt in Italien" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share Posted February 19, 2022 Wow... I never thought this post would take on such dimensions! A really interesting discussion indeed.... way more complcated than I thought. I am assuming then it was possibly made in italy for Export to China or Japan? From the quality and the production I would have guessed a Factory in Europe if early 1910-20. Having said that... the addition of a horseshoe is confusing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v.Perlet Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) 22 hours ago, Chris Boonzaier said: Wow... I never thought this post would take on such dimensions! A really interesting discussion indeed.... way more complcated than I thought. I am assuming then it was possibly made in italy for Export to China or Japan? From the quality and the production I would have guessed a Factory in Europe if early 1910-20. Having said that... the addition of a horseshoe is confusing.... Hello Chris, yes the horseshoe is irritating or confusing. That is why I initially suggested, made for a western customer e.g. Italy or by Italy On my part - I couldn't define/proof as to where it was actually made, besides taking note of the "Yi" Regards v.Perlet Edited February 20, 2022 by v.Perlet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1812 Overture Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 On 18/02/2022 at 20:18, JapanX said: Irgendwo in der Nähe "Hergestellt in Italien" ? I really don't get it, I've made it very clear, but why do they think it has something to do with Italy? what do you say？ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanX Posted February 27, 2022 Share Posted February 27, 2022 18 minutes ago, 1812 Overture said: I really don't get it, I've made it very clear, but why do they think it has something to do with Italy? 我也不知道 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No one Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Dear Gentlemen, 100% Japanese. Yours sincerely, No one Dear Gentlemen, A clearer picture (here): Yours sincerely, No one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No one Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 Dear Gentlemen, "...the horseshoe is irritating or confusing..." Why? A 100% Japanese horseshoe: Yours sincerely, No one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dfifer Posted December 1, 2023 Share Posted December 1, 2023 (edited) The only thing missing on the last picture is the bullet casing and slug. Go to: https://asiamedals.info/threads/bullet-case-on-a-horseshoe-commemorative-paperweights.26592/#post-358563 If the link doesn't work, please refer to the Medals of Asia website (https://asiamedals.info/) and search for Horseshoe. Enjoy Edited December 1, 2023 by Dfifer directing back to one particular image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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