Possible to date a order of Order of Isabella the Catholic?

[JohanH]

Hello!

 

Is there any way to date a Order of Isabella the Catholic?

 

I have recently got a small medalbar with an knight Italian Order of the Crown and the Spanish knight Order of Isabella the Catholic and would like to know if it is possible to date it?

 

A picture is on it's way. 

[JohanH]

1 hour ago, JohanH said:

Hello!

 

Is there any way to date a Order of Isabella the Catholic?

 

I have recently got a small medalbar with an knight Italian Order of the Crown and the Spanish knight Order of Isabella the Catholic and would like to know if it is possible to date it?

 

A picture is on it's way. 

Here is the photo. Unfortunately there is a damage in the enamel on the back . 

 

 

[Antonio Prieto]

This crowned FR monograme are in use between 1847-1868, the Reign of the Queen Isabel II of Spain

[JohanH]

16 hours ago, Antonio Prieto said:

This crowned FR monograme are in use between 1847-1868, the Reign of the Queen Isabel II of Spain

Thank you Antonio!

 

That was much earlier than I thought. I thought I had ID:ed the medalbar but if it is that early my theory crashes since my suspect was born in 1886. 

 

The hunt for a new suspect continues. 

BTW do you have any idea of how much it could be worth?

If I will fail with my ID it won't stay in my collection since the medalbar only has foreign orders and no Swedish or Finnish which is what I collect. 

[Antonio Prieto]

These crosses of the Order of Isabel la Católica regardless of its approximate date or use have been carried out later, or "inherit" case of family concessions as children or grandchildren.

If you have a name, it could see it in some listings.

Unfortunately, dont known prices for these crosses. I dedicate myself only to your study and I do not collect

[JohanH]

Here is the whole medalbar. 

 

 

[dedehansen]

Hi Johan,

 

thanks for sharing this nice medalbar.

 

Kind regards

 

Andreas

[JohanH]

I seems like I need to look in earlier state calendars to see if I could ID the original recipient. 

 

I think it should be possible since this order was not that usual to Swedes.

 

Does anyone have any idea if the Italian order of crown is possible to date?

 

 

Here is the back. Not much to see but still...

 

Court mounted. 

[Antonio Prieto]

Some concessions of Crosses found to Swedes and Finnish
01-11-1852 Nicolaï von Knudtzen, Vicevcosul of Spain in Christiansund (Sweden).

02-11-1852 Emil Helking, captain of artillery (Sweden).

01-01-1932 Ulf Barck-Holst, diplomatic, added to the legation (Sweden).

04-04-1932 Ragnvald-Richardson Bagge, diplomat, added in the Ministry of Foreign Business (Sweden).

04-06-1945 Claes Göran Gripenberg, Major of Cavalry (Finland).

[saxcob]

On 13/01/2023 at 23:05, Antonio Prieto said:

This crowned FR monograme are in use between 1847-1868, the Reign of the Queen Isabel II of Spain

Isn't the second model 1847-1868 supposed to have the "IR" or Y2 monogram? At least that is what Borna Barac (Reference Catalogue) says on page 1681.

[Antonio Prieto]

Please see

https://es-es.facebook.com/faleristica/

https://www.facebook.com/faleristica/posts/pfbid02XMLrimwNRUmNLEDFBoB8NuwCt5B12q7upvAjz61Rtwr8BhfgUowcFhM2GVoRz8PAl?__cft__[0]=AZXQsV-lUNZ0otRmhuW0lqVJl4i-DxWzFQecFlKk5d15qAgUJWJ-QSPXPCWJPSkqzuZFNbBMLQcIDHdVrupJhYaLgfwIiMEYYrnZNb3sSCYrKdLp8pWygjTIBzYxGvDtZV84Vj626W61ELzh9KjGqDG209TRryz5S7n_ctZ9aD_w6MhdrgFvml6WVwxXhhaRMV6-mQZGM7RG5cqnc5V2MiLm&__tn__=%2CO%2CP-R

 

[Megan]

Useful chart: bookmarked for future reference

 

Thanks, Antonio.

[speedytop]

And this one?

 

Uwe

[Antonio Prieto]

FRO7 crowned also between 1875-1931

All dates and periods are approximate. There are no regulations in this matter

[saxcob]

Thanks to Antonio for both of these extremely useful charts! I understand that the Y2 monogram is considered to be 1847-1868 period and not the FR one which we see on JohanH’s (in that case later) piece. That would also explain why it has a post-1868 appearance and date it closer to the Italian cross.

Edited February 5, 2023 by saxcob

[Antonio Prieto]

The explanations of the regulations give rise to interpretations. In the founding of 1815 he says: "My name, as founder of the Order, on a blue field in a gold cipher, royal crown crowned in the center of the shield"

The founder is the King Fernando VII. Cipher is FR (F)ernando (R)ey

 

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Antonio Prieto

[speedytop]

Thanks Antonio

 

Uwe

[Antonio Prieto]

In other regulations it indicates anything. The cipher YR or IR identify it as the pieces of the period of Isabel II (1833-1868) and perhaps subsequent periods, republics and others to Alfonso XII King of Spain between 1874-1885, regency of María Cristina (1886-1902 ) and Reign of Alfonso XIIII (1902-1931), which would use the FRO7

Cypher FY are the initials of the Catholic Kings, (F)ernando and (Y)sabel of the las regulation of 1998: "And on the reverse, the initials and crown of the Catholic Monarchs on Blue"

 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Antonio Prieto

[saxcob]

This medal case for a knight’s cross of the Order of Isabella the Catholic with the inscription 'S.M. la Reina de Espana à Mr. G.F. Servatius, Teniente de 2a. Clase de la Marina Real, De los Paises Vajos, Comandante de la Canonera No. 34' was awarded to Gerhard Fokko Servatius (1827-1893) who was a Dutch Naval officer. He received the medal for the saving of 11 people of the Spanish merchant vessel Allesandria, which ran aground on the sandbank Safinger bank in the Schelde in December 1855.

 

@Antonio Prieto: Am I right to assume that I need to find a piece with the cipher YR/IR in order to complete the set? Does anyone have one for sale or knows where to get one?

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by saxcob

[Antonio Prieto]

I send to you a MP

Best regards

[Antonio Prieto]

The cypher IR or YR really is I II R which corresponds to Queen Isabel II. But that the I of Isabel coincides with the first I in Roman numeral

[revolutie1830]

Hello, I have a document wich authorizes wearing a foreign order. In this case "Commandeur de l'Ordre d'Isabelle la Catholique" . Is there a list for Belgians awarded with this order? Which type of order would match this document?

Thank you in advance.

Edited December 25, 2023 by revolutie1830

[Antonio Prieto]

 

There is no record book for this order but the concessions have been collected in this book, but only in paper format, not in the PDF version that can be downloaded at:

It appears in the commanders file

https://www.boe.es/biblioteca_juridica/abrir_pdf.php?id=PUB-DH-2015-33

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.coleccionesmilitares.com/medallas/texto/oic.htm

 

[revolutie1830]

Hello Antonio.

Thank you for your response. Much appreciated.

 

Werner