Miniature Chain with Siam Crown Order

[webr55]

18 hours ago, saschaw said:

Not a specialist for Siamese awards, but from my source, Borna Barac's "Reference Catalogue Orders, Medals and Decorations of the World instituted until 1945. Part IV – Gold Book, P – Z.", p. 1760 to 1762, this type was used from 1873 to 1941.

 

I have never heard of any Siam design change in 1909?!

 

 

 

See here:

 

[VtwinVince]

Thanks for the ID, my immediate reaction was a naval officer.

[bill Shea]

Gentlemen

Thanks for all the kind words. I sincerely appreciate the feedback and the information on the original wearer of this very impressive medal bar. I shall not add this information to the Ebay listing in the sincere hopes that one of you will be the successful bidder. I am amazed at the level of knowledge displayed by your membership.

Kind Regards

Bill Shea

[Stogieman]

I hope someone here won the bar

[ThaiDave]

On 19/04/2023 at 17:18, webr55 said:

 

See here:

 

Hi.

The regulations give the design change as 1909. In the group shown this is the pre 1909 type.

 

The 1941 date I think came from Blass originally - I don't know where he got from, but he was not the most honest source.

 

We see the award certificates change the form in the 1940s not 1909.  And having handled several hundreds, I have found very few with such apparent age, but that's always hard to tell sometimes.  We have seen a handful of pictures with the new type confirmable before 1941.

On 18/04/2023 at 23:01, saschaw said:

Not a specialist for Siamese awards, but from my source, Borna Barac's "Reference Catalogue Orders, Medals and Decorations of the World instituted until 1945. Part IV – Gold Book, P – Z.", p. 1760 to 1762, this type was used from 1873 to 1941.

 

I have never heard of any Siam design change in 1909?!

 

 

 

Further: As for Borna Barac's "Reference Catalogue ...  this is a lifted and copied work with information and pictures taken from anywhere he could get it without references to the sources he lifted from. The information is not always very accurate.  Some of the pictures are even modified (one medal converted into another for example).  So perhaps its useful as a (copied from other peoples works) basic information.  But it certainly isn't a definite work for specialist precise details, especially over any other accurate information.

Edited May 17, 2023 by ThaiDave

[saschaw]

On 17/05/2023 at 14:35, ThaiDave said:

(...) Borna Barac's "Reference Catalogue (...) is not always very accurate.

I'm aware of that, but never saw a reason to question that specific information. Siamese awards are usually of concern to me when they're part of Imperial German groups, and it seems almost all pre-WW1 awards to Germans did indeed take place in the older, pre-1909 form. Chulalongkorn ("Rama V"), apparently, had much closer ties to Germany than his son and successor Vajiravudh (Rama VI). Thank you, ThaiDave and webr55, for this most helpful and educating reference to the Southeast Asia subforum!

 

I also took the liberty to merge Stogieman's thread "Back on eBay" into this topic, because it dealt with the v. Cappeln medal bar sold on ebay as well.