8-Place Imperial Medal Bar

[tyanacek]

Hi guys,

I haven't posted on here in quite a while, but I thought I would show this nice Imperial medal bar that I was fortunate to acquire last weekend.  Hope you like it!  Looks to be to a Prussian senior military official that was also recognized by the Kingdom of Bavaria, Kingdom of Württemberg, and the Grand Duchy of Hesse-Darmstadt.  Quite a unique combination.

Best regards,

Tom

[VtwinVince]

Looks interesting, but why is the KO3 on a NK ribbon? Never seen that before.

[tyanacek]

Senior Military Officials had to wear the Crown Order on the white ribbon with black stripes when awarded in wartime for bravery (with swords) or for performance of duties not in the line of fire (without swords). In addition to the usual blue ribbon, the Prussian Order of the Crown could also be worn with the  black ribbon with white stripes (Iron Cross ribbon), an Iron Cross ribbon with an additional white stripe down the center field, or even with the ribbon of the Prussian Cross for War Aid (when the order bears the Geneva Cross).

Best regards,

Tom

[VtwinVince]

Thanks for the clarification, that must be an extremely unusual award circumstance.

[Signalcorps45]

Tom,

 

Awesome bar!

 

Dean

[CRBeery]

On 11/05/2023 at 18:11, VtwinVince said:

Looks interesting, but why is the KO3 on a NK ribbon? Never seen that before.

I posted one here a few weeks ago.

[CRBeery]

Tom,

 Great bar and nice to see you back here! 

[tyanacek]

My thanks to all for the comments.👍

Best regards,

Tom

15 hours ago, CRBeery said:

Tom,

 Great bar and nice to see you back here! 

Thanks, Chet.

What a nice miniature chain that is.😻

Best regards,

Tom

[Komtur]

The person you are looking for, must be one of the 16 with the Crown Order 3rd class on the white ribbon in Verleihungen von preußischen Kriegsorden und Ehrenzeichen im 1. Weltkrieg by Daniel Krause, published in February 2023 and to be found here.

 

You can exclude Frielinghaus, Gerlach, Hennig, Lösche, Methling, Müller-Berneck, Werner and Winter because of other listed awards in the Rangliste der Kaiserlich Deutschen Marine 1918 and Bartelt because of the same reason in Handbuch über den Königlich Preußischen Staat 1918 as Moroff in Militär-Handbuch des Königreichs Bayern 1914.

 

So there are left Koenemann, Ottilie, von Roeder, Schiemann, Szillinsky and Wittmann to search for in other sources e.g. rank lists, award lists etc.

 

Regards, Komtur.

Preuss-Kriegsorden.pdf

[Dave Danner]

It's not Koenemann. He was a former IR 112 officer and had the Zähringen Lion and Baden's Regierungsjubiläumsmedaille. Also, a correction to Daniel's list: Koenemann was not Otto, but Erwin Dietrich Egon, *3.5.1866 in Berlin, †18.7.1935 in Nördlingen.

 

Ottilie, Schiemann, Szillinsky and Wittmann can also be ruled out by other decorations.

 

I am not 100% certain, but I believe that Roeder is Karl v. Roeder (1873-1945), the later Generalmajor z.V., who was a Maj.z.D. attached to the stellv. Generalstab der Armee in 1918. If so, he can also be ruled out by other decorations.

 

[tyanacek]

Hello Komtur and Dave,

 

You guys are the best.🥇  Thank you so very much for taking the time and effort in researching this unique medal bar.  I really appreciate all the help you have given me with this mystery.  If the list of recipients shown in the publication by Daniel is entirely complete, you would think that the medal bar would have to belong to one of the sixteen.  But it now appears that all sixteen can be excluded because they either had other decorations not on the medal bar or they lack a decoration that is on the medal bar.  Perhaps a few recipients have slipped through the cracks and do not appear on the listing?  Or could there possibly be a different von Roeder?  It’s actually a common name.  It is too bad that the first name is not listed nor the birth and death dates.  Perhaps it is also possible that this medal bar is a made up concoction and belongs to no real person?  Looking at the bar, though, (examining the orders, decorations, ribbons, and construction) I find this last possibility a bit hard to believe.
 

Thanks again and best regards,

Tom

[Komtur]

14 hours ago, tyanacek said:

...  If the list of recipients shown in the publication by Daniel is entirely complete, you would think that the medal bar would have to belong to one of the sixteen.  But it now appears that all sixteen can be excluded because they either had other decorations not on the medal bar or they lack a decoration that is on the medal bar.  Perhaps a few recipients have slipped through the cracks and do not appear on the listing?  Or could there possibly be a different von Roeder?  It’s actually a common name.  It is too bad that the first name is not listed nor the birth and death dates.  Perhaps it is also possible that this medal bar is a made up concoction and belongs to no real person?  Looking at the bar, though, (examining the orders, decorations, ribbons, and construction) I find this last possibility a bit hard to believe. ...

 

In the end all three options are possible:

 

1.) The list is not complete.

2.) There is a fitting von Roeder beside the ones we know.

3.) There is something wrong with this bar.

 

The last opportunity seems to me quite unlikely too. Designing such a bar in this clever combination needs a very informed and cute guy. But unfortunately this is not impossible.

 

Regards, Komtur.