Mongolia So... the hype is over?

[Bob]

Seems like the Mongolia craze has died... hardly any posts here, items with dealers don't appear to be moving much, not much bidding on eBay, etc.

Back to obscurity?

If so, any reader, please offer me your gold hero star for sale:)

[rboomsma]

Hello Bob

I have noticed the same, but the rarer stuff still sells if the price is reasonable.

Not much on ebay lately either. Just listed a bunch of stuff myself, interested to see how it sells

Seems like the Mongolia craze has died... hardly any posts here, items with dealers don't appear to be moving much, not much bidding on eBay, etc.

Back to obscurity?

If so, any reader, please offer me your gold hero star for sale:)

[Guest Rick Research]

Wait until Professor Ed returns from the 2006 Gobi Expedition

laden with hitherto undreamed of goodies and hard facts and figures undreamt of before to amaze, astound, and delight one and all.

Think of it as an early Christmas, coming soon to this forum.

[Bob]

Well, to liven things up a bit I'll post some relatively old Mongolian awards that will be coming my way tomorrow morning:)

[Bob]

Hello Bob

I have noticed the same, but the rarer stuff still sells if the price is reasonable.

Not much on ebay lately either. Just listed a bunch of stuff myself, interested to see how it sells

I noticed that

Unfortunately nothing I'm still looking for. Really, apart from some "lower end" items which I am still keeping an eye open for, my "want" list is quite short. Only rare items on it (although some easy to find - as long as you fork up the $$$) and really only one that I am really hunting for and willing to "break the piggy bank" to get: a Gold Hero Star

[rboomsma]

A Hero Star Wow

You must have good cash flow to be able to afford one of those. Best of luck in your search for one.

I noticed that

Unfortunately nothing I'm still looking for. Really, apart from some "lower end" items which I am still keeping an eye open for, my "want" list is quite short. Only rare items on it (although some easy to find - as long as you fork up the $$$) and really only one that I am really hunting for and willing to "break the piggy bank" to get: a Gold Hero Star

[Bob]

A Hero Star Wow

You must have good cash flow to be able to afford one of those. Best of luck in your search for one.

Well, let's wait and see IF I'll ever find one, IF it is for sale... and then what the price is. Although I do not buy awards as investments, these high end ones are really not much different than cash... you can easily convert them if you'd really need.

Sofar I've only gotten as close to a hero star as "rumours" (one is for sale in Moscow; one recently got sold by one of the major European dealers; etc.). Seeing a LIVE one in and of itself would already be nice

We'll see, did manage to get 2 Gold Soyombo labour hero's so hunting can pay off in the end.

[Bob]

Wait until Professor Ed returns from the 2006 Gobi Expedition

laden with hitherto undreamed of goodies and hard facts and figures undreamt of before to amaze, astound, and delight one and all.

Think of it as an early Christmas, coming soon to this forum.

And in the meantime Alexei is uncovering beautiful items and putting them on his site almost every week or two

[rboomsma]

Alexei is now the best supplier in Mongolian orders and fair prices also.

I guess he found a good source

And in the meantime Alexei is uncovering beautiful items and putting them on his site almost every week or two

[Ed_Haynes]

Short version: supply and demand.

Limited number of awards to begin with, a good book to work with (now out of print/stock and near-"collectible" in its own right), some dangerous (and some not-dangerous) fakes, institutions in Ulanbaatar have disgorged about all there is to give, and a large number of deep-pockets collectors are coming south to feed. Much has what has come of late is from a single source, and you do not need a PhD in economics to figuire that one out.

More to come . . . .

[rboomsma]

So whats your opinon Ed on future prices on Mongolian orders and medals?

And its interest in collecting them, will increse or decrease?

I have found Prices have dropped, more harder to get Orders popping up all the time now.

Seems interest has dropped, or just the selection is better and more of it.

Short version: supply and demand.

Limited number of awards to begin with, a good book to work with (now out of print/stock and near-"collectible" in its own right), some dangerous (and some not-dangerous) fakes, institutions in Ulanbaatar have disgorged about all there is to give, and a large number of deep-pockets collectors are coming south to feed. Much has what has come of late is from a single source, and you do not need a PhD in economics to figuire that one out.

More to come . . . .

[Bob]

So whats your opinon Ed on future prices on Mongolian orders and medals?

And its interest in collecting them, will increse or decrease?

I have found Prices have dropped, more harder to get Orders popping up all the time now.

Seems interest has dropped, or just the selection is better and more of it.

Perhaps the collecting community is just quite small and has generally been able to obtain most of what they want?

2000 Suche Baatars... how much demand for them is there REALLY from collectors? I have 2 myself... but are there 1000 people who'd fork up the money?

[order_of_victory]

As a Soviet collector I buy anything related to Soviet Medals / Millitaria / Lifestyle so if I found a Mongolian Medal I liked and at the right price I would buy it. But with there being no real text book on the subject it makes it a bit more difficult for a novice to get involved .

Just my thoughts.........

Order of Victory

[gor]

I do not see real decreasing of the prices for the Mongolian awards .It became simple more on market, but the prices have not changed . It was the same story with Soviet stuff.

[Stogieman]

I agree, but I've narrowed my focus to Mongolian in attributed Soviet groups. Well, OK... maybe one documented Mongolian group.... OK, maybe a few others... It's so hard to resist... they are quite beautiful!

[rboomsma]

I do not see real decreasing of the prices for the Mongolian awards .It became simple more on market, but the prices have not changed . It was the same story with Soviet stuff.

Prices have changed (dropped) some by as much as half. Look at the herder badges, a type one was selling for over $400 now you can get one for $150 or less. Thats is just one example, there is many more.

[Bob]

Again, I think it has to do with finite demand.

There are perhaps (ignore the specific number of course) 100 people in the world interested in purchasing such a type 1 herder badge... and generally these people are interested in buying 1 and not a second one (rather spend the cash on an item not yet in the collection) regardless of how much further the price comes down.

If there are then 150 of these badges offered... then probably after the 99th person has bought one, the prices will plummet. This is what I believe has happened. E.g. on ebay, items which would trigger bidding wars in the past are now getting no bids - people HAVE what they want.

For the ultra rare items it is different... more of a sellers market. I'm sure it would make no difference whether a seller would ask 10K or 12K for a hero gold star... if there's a buyer, he'll buy it anyway simply because such an opportunity only comes by once every couple of years.

I see it myself as well... the "basic" stuff I have, just looking for filling the difficult spots in my collection (Hero Gold Star, bronze Udarnik, etc.).

[Ed_Haynes]

For those who are type collectors and for those for whom medal collecting is a matter of "tee hee, I have one and you don't", collecting in any field is no more than a matter of assembling the budget to allow the filling the blanks as in a stamp album, so that once you "finish" Mongolia you can move, alphabetically, on to Montenegro. For them, the "hype" passes quickly.

If you have an interest in more "research" facets of phaleristics, though, there is always more to do. But, then, you move into areas of groups, documents, research on the development of the system of awards, and research on individual awards (when that becomes possible). I'd see that as a matter of maturation in a field rather than an end to the "hype".

That being said, we do have one fine basic reference book and more information is coming together both in normal published forms and on the web. This forum has added substantial new information and, when the contributing members have a chance to draw some loose ends together, I think we may anticipate more. The early phases of this forum have been a mixed picture of getting some basic data together and showing off possessions. Maybe the processes of evolution now come into play?

There are, to be sure, only perhaps 100-200 serious Mongolia collectors worldwide (mainly in the former USSR). And this population has to feed on a very small base of awards. When you compare the small numbers of Mongolian awards to the massive numbers of the corresponding Soviet awards the situation becomes clear. Many of these are type collectors, while others seem to be not much more than investors, seeking to anticipate the peak to what they cynically see as a "hyped bubble" and derive no more than a profit. Many of the items going south from Ulanbaatar seem to fall into that category. Supplies are finite and the current situation in UB reflects that. Major deluges of awards have flowed from State sources in the aftermath of Dr. Battushig's book and in the awareness that someone might actually want to buy these things, hitherto deemed essentially worthless. This has resulted in large numers of awards -- for example type 1 herder badges -- coming into the market, almost literally by the kilo, invoking supply and demand rules, and then disappearing. Yes, it is all very fluid and dynamic.

How similar are some of these processes to what happened with Soviet awards in the 1990s? The major difference, of course, is that for Mongolia a good reference book preceeded the availability of specimens in large numbers.

It has been very interesting to watch and the coming stabilization will be even more interesting, I think. Quite a ride and, as the wise old man said, "What a long, strange, trip its been".

Just my two (thousand?) tugriks worth,

Ed

[rboomsma]

Hello Bob

I have noticed the same, but the rarer stuff still sells if the price is reasonable.

Not much on ebay lately either. Just listed a bunch of stuff myself, interested to see how it sells

Ebay seems to have almost nothing now for Mongolian orders and medals. The orders I was selling for someone else only sold if they were undamaged in any way. Any item that had a little damage didn't sell. The ordinary medals and badges had little to no interest. Prices were also down.

[Bob]

Ebay seems to have almost nothing now for Mongolian orders and medals. The orders I was selling for someone else only sold if they were undamaged in any way. Any item that had a little damage didn't sell. The ordinary medals and badges had little to no interest. Prices were also down.

Indeed. Virtually nothing left on eBay and am also experiencing trouble getting items which I acquired via eBay several weeks ago from the typical sellers (not getting invoice, no mail contact despite repeated reminders, items not being delivered). World has certainly changed the from 6-9 months ago.

[Stogieman]

Dealer prices are down as well. I was actually able to buy a Boxed Red Banner of Combat for about half what I would NOT have paid for the same piece about a year ago. Just couldn't resist it....

[Ed_Haynes]

Ah . . . so the addiction lives on, Rick?

Yes, a bubble is passing. The massive deluge of unissued specimens from the state bank in Ulanbaatar and the early shake-out from UB-based dealers has passed. In large part, Battushig's book produced that. A good reference in a previously unknown field, coupled with the availability by the kilo -- literally -- of most awards has generated a strange market.

It is, I think, stablizing, especially as most Mongolian collecting to date has been not much more than type collecting. As you tick off the types on your checklist, you have the ONE you need and need no more. Likewise, the emergence of large numbers of collectors in Russia (many in out of the mainstream places like Irkutsk) has sucked up most of the supply that comes to market.

If/when research becomes possible, and hopes remain high on that front, things will change again. At the very least, we'll probably be able to distinguish between awarded items and surplus flushed from the state bank.

Think of this in terms of the history Soviet collecting from the 1970s or 1980s until the present, but with a good reference book already in hand. And then factor in the very small numbers of Mongolian awards, especially as compared to their Soviet cousins.

It has been an interesting few months and it will be an even more interesting few years.

My 2000 tugriks worth . . .

[Bob]

Prices are down... or up?

Try finding a Order of SB - I can only see 3 for sale right now and much higher prices than ever before... which I don't quite see dropping because supply has simply dried out.

Curious why this has happened... even on eBay. Can't just be the state vaults which have dried up...

[Ed_Haynes]

Can't just be the state vaults which have dried up...

Precisely!

[Bob]

Precisely!

Or the Mongolian State Vault is now called the "Ed Haynes Residence" - when are you going to share all the goodies you've picked up on your travels - whether awards or simply more information!