Photo of a Brave Unteroffizier

[Guest Rick Research]

This was left on my doorstep with a note from "El Guapo" this morning.

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Can't QUITE make out the shoulder strap (there is, alas no name on back)-- up close it looks like an "*" but further back a "2," I think.

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And as my Evil Twin likes to tease, there is something VERY special about this photo.

And no, I don't mean it is a studio shot of "Quentin" in mid-morph from "Dark Shadows."

[Chip]

Well, he appears to be have the pre-1894 marksmanship lace on his cuff. His NCO knot is also interesting and though it is hard to tell, it looks like an Oberj?ger knot. Could this be a Hirschf?nger that he is wearing?

Chip

[Daniel Murphy]

Rick,

With the foot pattern belt buckle and lion head sword, I would say he is an artilleryman. Dragoon swords were different with a basket hilt.

Edited June 30, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[Guest Rick Research]

I thought artillery too. It appears to be a normal lion head sword. There is a bit more "leg" and scabbard showing, but I cropped that away as space not value. Not enough to show his shoes or its drag.

[Guest Rick Research]

Aww, nobody else?

OK, pre-1894 hits closest to bullseye!

It is, indeed, pre-1894. It is

1871.

That's right. That, my friends, as an 1870 EK1 to a junior and non-infantry NCO, being worn BEFORE they handed out the 1870-71 War Medals.

Now I don't know how many of the 1,903 1870 EK1s were bestowed on enlisted men

but it would have been a mere fraction of that miniscule number.

If ONLY he had signed his name!!!!!!!!!

[Bob Hunter]

Regardless, Richard, named or not I'm certain he is a distant relative of yours...

Edited July 6, 2006 by Bob Hunter

[Guest Rick Research]

Something about the glint in his eyes... and the hair style IS remarkably similar to what I look like when the road out of the swamp finally melts clear in the spring.

[Daniel Murphy]

That's right. That, my friends, as an 1870 EK1 to a junior and non-infantry NCO, being worn BEFORE they handed out the 1870-71 War Medals.

Or he is just wearing a "Black and white front". Although I am sure many were awarded during the conflict, most documents I have seen are dated 1873 and I understand the majority were awarded then.

Dan Murphy

[dwmosher]

I'm with you Chip. An Oberjager with a Hirschfanger. The shooting awards shown were authorized for infantry, jagers and schutzen; not artillery. Additionally, although artillery officers and unteroffizier mit portepee were allowed to use the lion head sword, this chap is using an Oberjager troddel and does not have the senior NCO rank button on the collar. Also, I don't see where a hilt goes into the eagle (or lion...) head to make it a sword.

[Glenn J]

Rick,

if this chap is an Oberj?ger (and I agree with Chip and Dave that he most probably is) then he is narrowed down to a cast of three. Only three Line J?ger NCOs were awarded the EK1 in 1870/71 and all of them in the then named 1. Schlesisches J?ger-Bataillon Nr. 5:

Oberj?ger Hausknecht

Oberj?ger Gude

Oberj?ger Meermann.

Regards

Glenn

[Guest Rick Research]

DOH!!! I didn't even NOTICE that the lion is NOT holding the "P" knuckle guard in its teeth-- NO guard there.

None of the three were listed in the Orders Almanac of 1908/09, so presumably dead by then.

Probably too much to hope for portrait photos in any theoretical Battalion History for 1870/71.

Glenn-who-continuously-astonishes-and-amazes-me, where oh where did you get a LIST of enlisted 1870 EK1 holders? Or of ANY, for that matter?

This makes FOUR original photos of 1870 EK1 holders now in my collection.

This one I was never sure of-- despite the Bavarian Military Max Joseph Order Knight's Cross (again, note no campaign medal yet) but Glenn also put a name to THIS face:

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Karl Freiherr von Horn (15.12.1818-14.9.1886), later General der Infanterie zD

THIS one I could do All Bah Mahsailf thanks to the awards, though had not his entire career. (Glenn again! )

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Maximilian von Hagenow (9.3.1844-14.2.1906), during the period 1893 to 1895 (no EK oakleaves yet) when he was commaning Hussar Regiment 9. Later General der Kavallerie. Close up:

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And the same situation on THIS one, which he at least had autographed-- saving me flipping Rank Lists, but once again bio from Glenn--

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Adolf von Wittich (28.8.1836-23.2.1906) here circa 1897 while commanding XI. Armeekorps, later Generaloberst ranking as a Generalfeldmarschall. Close up:

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FOUR down, 1,889 more original photo portraits of 1870 EK1 holders to go!

But I think out of these four, despite the dazzling enamel, retail fantasies, and bizarre hairdos... that lowly Oberj?ger probably did the most to EARN his.

Thanks guys!!!!!!!

[Glenn J]

Rick,

Deutschlands Heere bis 1918 by G?nther Voigt, a multi-volumed series by Biblio Verlag which covers the history of all regular formations up to 1918 usually lists the awards of the EK1 by name for each regiment/independant battalion. Only commissioned officers were awarded the EK1 in the remaining Prussian line J?ger battalions. In the case of J?ger-Bataillon Nr. 5 in addition to the three Oberj?ger listed above, the following officers also were awarded the EK1:

Major von Boedicker

Hptm. von Strantz

Hptm. Nolte

Seconde-Lieutenant von Waldaw

Seconde-Lieutenant von Brunn- gen. von Kauffungen

Regards

Glenn

[saschaw]

Rick Research said:

FOUR down, 1,889 more original photo portraits of 1870 EK1 holders to go!

Dear Gentlemen, I'vo got two more of these. The first one is, as the seller said, is Professor Wilms from Charité Berlin, with:

 

at his neck:

- Bayern, Militärverdienstorden, Kommandeurkreuz;

- Württemberg, Kronenorden, Komturkreuz mit Schwertern;

on his 5 place medal bar:

- Preußen, Eisernes Kreuz 1870 II. Klasse am "weiß-schwarzen Band" (!!!);

- Preußen, Roter Adler-Orden III. Klasse mit Schleife;

- Preußen, Erinnerungskreuz 1866 für Nichtkämpfer;

- Preußen, Kriegsdenkmünze 1864 in Stahl;

- Preußen, Kriegsdenkmünze 1870/71 in Stahl am Band für Kämpfer(?).

 

Under them his Eisernes Kreuz 1870, I. Klasse.

 

This guy was a Nichtkämpfer and got the EK I !!!

 

 

Could someone please check if the name is correct to the photo?

 

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by saschaw

[saschaw]

And a close up:

[saschaw]

My 2nd one is a Prussian General, picture taken in 1874. He's wearing:

at the neck:

- Preu?en, Orden pour le merite, Kreuz mit Eichenlaub;

- Preu?en, Roter Adler-Orden II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub;

- S?chsische Herzogt?mer, S?chsisch-Ernestinischer Hausorden, Komturkreuz mit Schwertern;

- Oldenburg, Haus- und Verdienstorden, Komturkreuz mit Schwertern.

on his 8 place medal bar:

- Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz 1870 II. Klasse;

- Preu?en, Dienstauszeichnungskreuz;

- Preu?en, Kriegsdenkm?nze 1870/71 f?r K?mpfer;

- Preu?en, Kreuz f?r K?niggr?tz(?)1866;

- Preu?en, Hohenzollersche Denkm?nze 1848;

- ?sterreich, Orden der Eisernen Krone, Kreuz III. Klasse;

- Russland, St. Georgs-Orden, Kreuz IV. Klasse;

- Schaumburg-Lippe, Milit?rverdienstmedialle 1870/71.

and under the bar:

- Preu?en, Stern zum Roten Adler-Orden II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub;

- Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz 1870 I. Klasse;

- another Komturstern, may be SEHO or Oldenburg.

[saschaw]

A close up of his interresting medals:

[saschaw]

I loved to know his name, burt unfortunally, I cannot read it for sure. It was written in the album out of which it was sold, but I still have a scan of the written name.

I also made a even closer close up of his order plm with OL ...

Edited September 8, 2006 by saschaw

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

Great photos you guys. You know how I enjoy the 1870 guys. I have a complete photo album from my great-grandfather and the page you show is exactly of the same style as his. I am sure Rick and Glenn can easily ID your fellow there as he was obviously a hero of the highest order.

[webr55]

Yes, great photo of later General d. Inf. Alexander Friedrich Wilhelm von Kraatz-Koschlau (1817-1897). Several members of the family were Generals.

[Glenn J]

Could someone please check if the name is correct to the photo?

Generalarzt Dr. Robert Ferdinand Wilms (born 09 Sep 1824 in Arnswalde and died 23 Sep 1880 in Berlin. Carried on the rolls of Reserve-Landwehr-Bataillon (Berlin) Nr. 35, he served as a consulting surgeon in the war of 1870/71. In 1879, the year before his death he is shown as a Generalarzt 1. Klasse ? la suite des Sanit?ts-Corps. He additionally held the title of a Geheimer Sanit?ts-Rath. And yes, the awards match Wilms! Here is an earlier portrait.

Regards

Glenn

[Chip]

Moving to start another topic.....http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11019

Edited September 10, 2006 by Chip

[Guest Rick Research]

You need to post that board in its own thread-- it certainly deserves it and is simply LOST in here completely off topic.

I dunno how to SPLIT threads so you'll have to post it again.

[Glenn J]

Here is a biography of Kraatz-Koschlau's career until promotion to Generalmajor from von Glasenapp in 1868.

Regards

Glenn

[saschaw]

Thanks a lot Gentlemen for your help.