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    Question on Saxe Coburg Gotha Duke Carl medal


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    Guest Rick Research

    Alas, while it must certainly exist, I don't have the non-Xs list. The with-X list is included in the Triple Ernestine Duchies WW1 Awards Rolls book (3 copies remaining for America del Norte :rolleyes: ).

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    Guest Rick Research

    DID you, by God!!!!! :jumping:

    :cheers:

    I tried and I tried and I whined and I pleaded with Paul C to get that bar, but nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. :P

    That's NOT a peacetime one-- it is one of SEVEN awarded to Bavarians during the war WITHOUT the bar. :jumping:

    RARE RARE RARE RARE RARE :jumping:

    and luckily

    :catjava:

    Unique.

    Oskar BERGNER

    born 1871

    Feuerwerks-Leutnant 25.06.06

    Feuerwerks-Oberleutnant 28.10.12

    Feuerwerks-Hauptmann 14.01.16

    charakterisiert Feuerwerks-Major aD circa 1920

    Of the Lucky Seven (doesn't it look great next to the 1905 Luitpold Jubilee Medal? :love: ), Bergner was the ONLY one with a BMV4X and XXIV.

    He received his BMV4X on frontline ribbon before April 1916 while still an Oberleutnant, so not in the Rolls that have been published to date. But it's confirmed as a gold-centered version to him in that secret 1916:

    and 1918 Rank Lists. Also had the EK2 by April 1916 as the above shows.

    His same-as-peacetime Saxe Coburg Carl Eduard Medal with no swords device was gazetted in the Bavarian Personal Nachrichten on 13 May 1916, so we JUST missed having him in that last Rank List that showed ALL awards during the war. There was probably at least a month or so delay, maybe more. Figure he actually got in early in 1916.

    He was still listed by his PEACETIME assignment (a peculiarity of Bavarian wartime gazettes) at the Artillery & Train Depot Direction, so do not know why or where he REALLY got this. Two Zeug officers got theirs with him or at least close enough to have been gazetted in the same PN with him. Another recipient was a retired Feuerwerks officer called back up, and one was a Feuerwerks officer on staff of the bavarian War Ministry -- so ordnance/explosives officers = 5 of 7. The ramaining 2 were aFeldpost official, and a reserve doctor.

    Bergner had been THE ordnance officer of the 1st Field Artillery Brigade in 1909. In 1913 he was on the staff of Artillery Depot Ingolstadt. Chances are he switched between wartime assignments like a divisional ammunition depot officer to something on higher staff for ammunition supply. Perhaps not quote unquote exciting but...

    I can't think of anything MORE exciting (well, in Imperial German militaria collecting :rolleyes: ) than a definitively unique anonymous medal bar ID.

    They don't ALL have to be "famous" to BE unique.

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    Guest Rick Research

    There was only a single Feuerwerks-Major in April 1918, and 23 Captains including Bergner. VERY small but vital specialist corps of former NCOs.

    This one is a peach! :cheers:

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    Ed, I am happy the bar stayed in the US. I went back the Friday to get it and it was gone. The seller had many nice bars. He was the only dealer selling good Imperial medal bars. The purchasing I did at the MAX was not my finest hour as I passed up a few really nice things.

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    • 2 weeks later...

    What a tremendous bar. Ed, congratulations.

    As long as it doesn't cross some unspoken boundary of secrecy, I'm also interested in who sold the piece. I must have passed it at the MAX but I don't know where.

    Should anyone reading this post have something similar for sale, please pm me.

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    Robert Scott is correct. I also bought a bar from him and he had many really nice things.

    Thanks for this thread, I admire your diligent work to rename these great bars :beer:

    Yes, Robert Scott?s collection :cool:

    But sorry PaulC, some beauties of Robert reached the old Prussian homeland :rolleyes:

    Best regards, Komtur.

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    But sorry PaulC, some beauties of Robert reached the old Prussian homeland :rolleyes:

    Way before the MAX show, for those that could not go there. :P He had some really nice bars - and still enough for the MAX, I guess.

    :beer:

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    Guest Rick Research

    :Cat-Scratch: Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RAO4 on "white black" ribbon! :love::love:

    Discounting the 1 for 1848/49... 260 from 1864-67, according to Eric Ludvigsen's statistical study. :jumping::jumping::jumping:

    MANY :cheers:

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    :Cat-Scratch: Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RAO4 on "white black" ribbon! :love::love:

    Discounting the 1 for 1848/49... 260 from 1864-67, according to Eric Ludvigsen's statistical study. :jumping::jumping::jumping:

    MANY :cheers:

    Oh, the work is still done :unsure:

    I planned to count these in the Ordenslisten from 1848 to 1918 ...

    Regards, Komtur.

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    Guest Rick Research

    Oops-- I missed 4 of the annual awards (total is the same) by YEAR:

    1849 = 1

    1864 = 37

    1865 = 11

    1866 = 98

    1867 = 105

    1868 = 1

    1870 = 3

    1871 = 1

    There were also

    1894 = 3

    1895 = 1

    but those were surely for obscure colonial campaigns and would have been pebbled arms anyway-- so 256 to look for, not 260.

    No other awards of this type ribbon onr 4th Class up to the last published Ordensliste.

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