Chris Boonzaier Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Hello!Thank You for the clarification.Wher can I get documentation in original writings?All the best NesredepHuh?What kind of Writing do you expect to find? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 I hear you Scott, it's a thin line to walk. However this is pretty much "common" knowledge and once Pascal's book will hit the stores, the fakers will have a field day.cheersPeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 Huh?What kind of Writing do you expect to find?Hello!ChrisOriginal ww2 writings or some ww2 catalog?All the best Nesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 You mean, a catalog printed in WW2 pointing out what fakes will look like in 2000?If you find a copy, can you buy one for me as well?ThanksChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 You mean, a catalog printed in WW2 pointing out what fakes will look like in 2000?If you find a copy, can you buy one for me as well?ThanksChrisHello!I think this is difficult,but I hope?All the best Nesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 Hello!Luckely I get my money back! from the dealer here in Norway. All the best Nesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 Hi....just thought I'd post a better scan of the Small '4' Fake. Nesderep's Narvik is certainly that type and not original. Chris, that's a superb shield....not a Deumer but certainly original. As of this moment an 'unknown maker' but thought to be Junker.Hope that helps.........Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 Hi....just thought I'd post a better scan of the Small '4' Fake. Nesderep's Narvik is certainly that type and not original. Chris, that's a superb shield....not a Deumer but certainly original. As of this moment an 'unknown maker' but thought to be Junker.Hope that helps.........PeterHello!Please explain " Small 4" why is this fake? I need to learned.All the best Nesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Hi Peter,Thanks for the feedback, but I have to disagree. Chris's Narvik is definately not a Juncker, which is easily identified by the wing-tips sitting above the horizontal bar. I insist that Chris's shield is of the so called Deumer design, with a reservation that it might be from a different manufacturer.cheersPeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 The document conforms in appearance to the naval versions issued by General Eduard Dietl's office. Of course, it is usually impossible to establish authenticity from a photograph, especially a snapshot like this, taken from a distance, at an angle, through glass. The shield is indeed a fake that has fooled a good many collectors. The Narvikschild was made by several firms, of course, and there are differences between them but this type turned up in the 1990s, as far as I remember. PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesredep Posted May 28, 2008 Author Share Posted May 28, 2008 Hello!Where come the " Small 4 " Fake knowledge from?All the best Nesredep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKeating Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Nobody seems to have had this type of shield in their collections before the late 1990s. Also, some of these shields, as in one of the photographs here, are mounted on completely incorrect backing. And when you hold this type of fake in your hands, you just know there is something wrong with it. Get your money back from the dealer and invest in a real one. The document seems to be genuine but, of course, it is impossible to tell from this photo. PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Hi Peter,Thanks for the feedback, but I have to disagree. Chris's Narvik is definately not a Juncker, which is easily identified by the wing-tips sitting above the horizontal bar. I insist that Chris's shield is of the so called Deumer design, with a reservation that it might be from a different manufacturer.cheersPeterPeter...you may well be correct regarding the Junker shield...I think this type is still unknown. Below a couple of Deumer shields. The Army backed zinc is an early version, The KM version is a later version with the 'filled in area' between the shoulders.N....if you look at the '4' in 1940 on the shield I posted and on your shield, you'll see the '4' is smaller the the '0' . Also under a loupe the quality of the detail is poor.All the best.........Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Peter... do you mean this type being, the so-called Cupal 'Snaggletooth' being a Junker.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 No, that's not the one. Here's a link with Juncker shield.http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...=Juncker+NarvikcheersPeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 No, that's not the one. Here's a link with Juncker shield.http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...=Juncker+NarvikcheersPeterThat's one of my other shields Peter....... . I still maintain the Cupal shield shown is thought to be attributed to Junker.Maybe when Pascal's book comes out we'll know more.all the best........Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal H Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Only today this thread was brought to my attention and I have been reading it with the greatest of interest.Let me start by saying that until today no makers of Narvik shields are definitely known.We are only making assumptions of who these makers were by the way some of these shields were found and what makers were named in earlier literary.So are for example the names Juncker and Deschler named in a article in ?Internationales Militaria-Magazine?. However no proof was given in the article that these shields were actually made by these makers. Nimmergut is calling a different type of shield to be made by Juncker. This only proof how difficult it is to name a Maker with any certainty.The shield as shown by Chris is without a doubt an original shield. I only don?t think this is a so called ?Deumer? shield. I have this type of shield in my own collection and I believe that this shield was made by the same maker who made the so called Juncker type shield with the exception that on this type of shield the wings do touch the bar.The shield as shown by Nesredep is with a doubt a fake. This shield is the most encountered fake and is a copy of what is also called the Deschler type shield. In the collecting world this fake is indeed known as the small ?4? fake. As Peter already pointed out the? 4? is a fraction smaller and maybe also a bit lower as the ?0?KRPascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Hi,I can pinpoint mine to one of 5 shields given to the Ships Doctor on the Bernd von Arnim. All were the same and he never bought any others. So they were amongst the first issued (I assume).bestChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Peter, it's a tough slice to chew, but I stand corrected The similarities between the Deumer and this 2nd type Juncker are stunning, but yes, there are minor differencies. I'm waiting for Pascal's book with great anticipation and instead of penetrating these details, I'll give the honours to Pascal with his book cheersPeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Peter, it's a tough slice to chew, but I stand corrected The similarities between the Deumer and this 2nd type Juncker are stunning, but yes, there are minor differencies. I'm waiting for Pascal's book with great anticipation and instead of penetrating these details, I'll give the honours to Pascal with his book cheersPeterPeter....as Pascal says, there's no absolute proof that certain Narvik shields can be attributed to certain makers. No need to stand corrected (you may well have called it right). A really great thread ......Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Kind words buddy, but on this particular occasion I believe I was wrong. Your correct about the uncertainty of actual producers, at least we can use the alleged designs to differentiate the various designs when we discuss them. Concur, interesting thread cheersPeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Hi jacket with 2nd shield... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter BL Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Very nice Chris...would it be possible to see a close-up of the shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Hi,it is the exact twin of the one I posted before. All from the same officer.Will dig out the tunic, it is stored away at the moment.bestChrisbestChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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