saschaw

The first one is a very nice Bavarian Vet as you explained, most likely here is a Bavarian MVK 1st Modell, maybe with swords, maybe without. The swords were instituted in 1892 for those who got their MVK for bravery in 1866 and 1870/71 and had to be bought be the recipient theirselfes. I'm not sure about the second one concerning rank and time. The combination looks like a pre war officer, but I know the tag from the back from post war bars, but may be wrong on this or it was used both pre and post war. Furthermore the style would be unusual for an officer with two enemaled orders. I'd rather say a NCO is more likely, which means the Prussian silver medal "Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen" and a Russian medal for zeal or something similar ...

Hey, nice link - that's the well-known "raritaetensammlerclub" aka "cetra2003". Caveat emptor ... His ribbons may not glow, but I fear most of the orders themself glow ...

Me too, I have no idea what this makes an major-level MVO4aX ... ? I guess Rick is absolutely right about his guess, this seems to be any Bavarian "Landwirtschafts-" oder "Handelskammer" awards, semi-official and presumably from Weimar era or early 3rd Reich - but those actually were not allowed to be worn post 1936, from what I know ... - "actually", we know how many wore what and how they liked to.

Ups, I didn't look and thougt there was'n a picture - but nothing peculiar the back tells us, hum? Yes that's right, I'd say this is mostly by two persons: one who made it in WWI from NCO to Leutnant and an elderly one who might have been his father (or uncle, or very very old brother, or father in law). Though I think the three bars *are* a set as there's ONE Z?hringer Knight, ONE Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen, ONE Austria medal, NONE Sudetenland (and don't ask why this one is missing). I hope they'll arrive tomorrow ...

Oh I'm not too sure anymore, but the design is the one I know. The other side should have a closed "4", not one that is open ... anyone get's what I mean ...

I actually like both bars but it's hard to be sure nowadays - and I wonder how I made it to a "guru" yet as I'm still hear to learn. The Iron Cross on the first bar - which really looks weird but those homemade bars exist as we know - is a private purchase with a hollow core. When you show the avers, we'll realize it better ...

The outfitter apparently thought not only Austria but as well Magyar was "eaten" by German's superpower ...

Of course we can never exclude something like this for sure, but this seems to be a very typical NCO/Vet bar. There's no Iron Cross, thee are no other awards. I'm pretty sure SPM is right about the Landwehr bar.

Sorry, no backs by now, as they're still in the post and he didn't show pictures yet. There was, as I said, _no_ medal bar but the single awards and some more that may have been from the father e.g. As there was not a second similar lot I'm pretty sure those three *are* a set. If they are, the middle bar dates from January 30th (institution of Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen) to March 1938 - Austria medal. Can we be sure the outfitter had the device for a Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen in this times? I'd think it's possible to find bars without the device, e.g. in this short time frame. Edit: I just realized that Prussian long service award IInd class in the right corner that he may have gotten as a NCO, if he was in the navy or a Prussian unit. A Baden NCO should otherwise have gotte a Baden long service award - is it possible he got that one but didn't wear it anymore after getting the TD-EZ in 1938 ... ?

Ah, SPM hit the point ... I forgot about those private purchase, but it's the most likeliest, for sure ...

Thanks for your input ... ... but this would mean seven more awards from beginning 1938 to 1945 ... ? Is this possible? I'd wonder but am not that much into WW II awards ... isn't my version likely, that the upper bar dates from "Italy is now enemy"-times, shortly before end of WW II? [edit: this was yet in july 1943, thought it was later]

There *should* actually be a sewn on pre 1913 type long service award, most likely Landwehr - but I cannot see any wholes in the ribbon?! No idea ...

Thanks, but weeeell it wasn't a job, the seller still had it - but it was too bad to be on eBay, there's an eeeevil swastika ...

Here are my newest acquisitions, a set of three nice ribbon bars to one person. After having bad luck with ribbon bars, I'm pretty sure those are good. They came up on a German forum with most of the lose decorations and some more stuff, but the seller sold the orders and forgot about the ribbon bars which are mine now. No problem for me about that splitting, I don't mind those lose stuff I can buy within two weeks - there was no medal bar. The wearer must have loved Mr. Hitler for making three awards in 1918 increase to eight or nine in 1945, for presumably not doing too much ... The Italian Crown order disappears on the last bar so I think this a very late one, from times when Italy wasn't "our friend" anymore - 1944/1945, and it was apparently awarded post 1934 but pre 1938. He seems to have seen combat in WW II, but his long service award is just a Treudienst-Ehrenzeichen. I'm not sure what kind of person this was? Is there a chance to find him? The seller claimed it was a "v. Domarus" or similar, but I cannot find such a name neither in Mr. Roth's nor in Mr. RR's Z?hringer lists, so I think this isn't a match ...

Nice and not too common bar, having been published in a magazine even nicer. Well why not, the Ottomans even made their decoration from this ...

I don't know if other had the same combination but Oberstleutnant Otto Bredt, Komm. RIR 239 had the same with an additional order BZL3aXEl, awarded on 17. Februar 1916. If the Hamburger was awarded some earlier and the bar pre-dates the Z?hringer ... ? Deruelle, I almost bought the bar, too. You're a lucky guy I wasn't in mood ... ;o)

An asterik usually stands for silvered brass (or similar) and was used in Austria, so this should be an Austrian made, silvered private purchase piece - or the star was used by another, maybe German maker ...

Rick, I'm sorry, but ... he doesn't ...

Great example for "Prussian precendence" in connection with "no sense but my style". Very nice photo, unfortunally no name from me but a

This one came up before on eBay, sold for about 1,7k Euro - and a discussion, I think here but cannot find it, said it is NOT a good one. The peacetime RAO4 doesn't fit to the WFO3bX, for example, but I think there were some more things. Buy it for the piece's price and you bought good, any cent more may be wastet money, in my humble opinion.

I hope I'll do and some others, too.

Here a Prussian officer with the Waldeck MVK. I guess those are much rarer than the Verdienstkreuz?! Not sure, but can hardly remember having seeen those often ... PS: this is Oberst von Schell, IR 15 ...

Not even his "genuine" ribbons for 3,- Euro each ... From me he bought a Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen that came up on a strange huge medal bar some weeks later ...

Of course it's a German's bar. The Austrian medal is by the way not to common in Austrian groups. Many groups without it in Austria ... But I'm still not 100% convinced it's a second row. Second rows are thaaat rare, I've hardly ever seen some but on Admirals, then each with about eight decorations. Dr. G?rtner or someone else's?

Methinks the same. As the Garter is one of the highest orders in old Europe I cannot imagine it was awarded to foreigners who had not their homelands highest order. I don't know which orders exist with Garter besides Prussian Black Eagle and the here shown Hannoverian as they are not seen too often. Exists a Baden Fidelitas house order with garter? I don't know if the Grand dukes held it ...