saschaw

Yes you're right, these are real beauties. =) According to Nimmergut, they were only awarded until 1918, so there shouldn't be a 1920 maths ... This nice bar has been sold on eBay.de just a week ago, for 1.210,- Euro ~ US $1,750.- ...

The other one, still with my father but won't rest that long ...

From what I know, this has been the last day Baden decorations were awarded. My late Z?hringer merit cross document dates as well 8. November. I've never seen something later ... Now that's nice ...

Okay, thank you. So I presume they're are synthetic, but actually I don't mind. What does such a set of 3rd class with case and two ribbons bars usualy cost, with and without document? I have only one catalogue with foreign orders (Zeige's price guide from 2005), and there it is listet with a very helpful " * " for fool's price.

I bought a nice set of the 3rd class, the badge with two ribbon bars and it's huuuge case from the son of a German wearer, together with his Lebanese order of the cedar, officer's cross. I hope to get the matching documents soon ... How can I recognize if these stones are real or not? And does it make any difference?

I cannot remember to have ever found any maker marks on a knight's cross IInd class. Maker may be Zimmermann in Pforzheim, but I'm not sure as almost nothing is written in the books I know ... Marks that can be found on Z?hringers are e.g. "Z" for Zuber (or again Zimmermann), oak leaves appear with an "B" for Bertsch(?) and "333" or "585" which is the Gold contect. No more information from me, sorry ...

This bar used to have a very fine silk backing, which fell apart to dust. Take a closer look ... Nice combination, yes ... reminds me to one I used to have ...

*grrrrrr* He wears his Z?hringer 3bX with Oakleaves, but never got those. This is enough for not to like him, not to speak about "some" other "things" ... PS: I recently read that Hitler annuled the Iron Cross Grand cross award to G?ring, so it was once awarded and once annuled!

I always wondered why Rothe did not do these, now it's clear ... I have NEVER seen something like this before, this wasn't a Badener who did this. This job should be done by someone with good eyes ... but my glasses are - no joke - about 6mm thick ...

I'm not an expert on those, but the cross looks good to me. Though, the case doesn't fit, does it? I'd expect another one with an GMVK, this one looks more like a REO's case ...

Hmm, apparently a military because of his Prussian Long Service Cross, but ... hmm ... it makes me wonder. A Baden/Prussian officer, not in service in 1897 and neither in 1902 (lack of Baden jubilee medal!), with a exceptional career, all these pre war awards and no military service in WWI, but though a Baden war merit cross - possible?! Hmm ... or he served from about 1872 to 1896, reactivated in any job for WWI to get his Merit Cross ... ?

Very nice bar. Bad Cannstadt is near Stuttgart. But one thing to add: it's apparently a NCO's bar with Bavarian BM/MMM and MMC 3rd class with crown and swords.

Great work, really great work, buuuuut: it's not only a DAMM but as well a DAMN bar. You want to know why? Hmmm ... you may guess whose it was in 2004. Guess just once, Rick ... But little Sascha, back then aged 16, always needed money ... World is small, isn't it?!

Good news to start: you're not the only one who is very confused about this. I know some but am not absolutely sure with most, others might correct me - at least I hope they do, if I'm wrong. Until 1891, there were NO swords at all. Even war time awards for bravery were without swords, and those who got their MVOs and MVKs for bravery were allowed to upgrate their decorations in 1891 with private purchased swords. From what I know, (Great) War time awards came always with swords, peace time awards always without. Furthermore, there were (almost*) no different ribbons until 1913. All decorations, even with swords were worn on the ribbon that we call "peace time ribbon". The "Kriegsband" and "Kriegsband f?r Beamten" were created in 1913. The ribbon on the "Morton & Eden" grand cross fits, when the cross is pre 1913. *the first class apparently used another ribbon than the Grand cross, but it is though a peace time ribbon/ribbon for crosses without swords.

I'm pretty sure it is. If it isn't this, it would be a modern fake - what I don't think. On the other hand, you cannot date these privat purchased medals. I guess they didn't change the writing at the same time with the official medals, or directly spoken: I think most of the "Ist model" medals offered are later coinages, from about 1900 or so. I don't have Kapitular's book by now, so I don't know if there is something written about the "Nachpr?gungen, Zweit- und Spangenst?cke" ?!

I know these are faked, but I don't know how good, to be honest. I guess I wouldn't realize a good fake as such, but I showed mine to people that are aware, and I trust their opinion. Better pictures of mine are impossible at the moment, I'm sorry - my scanner went crazy, and I'm not good with a camera ... Well, I guess this was a "once in a lifetime" eBay bargain, but I like to mention it anytime, just for those who condamn eBay always. It is not impossible to do really good buys. At least sometimes ... PS: I'm still looking for a good(!) MMO 4th class without swords. If someone has one he doesn't need anymore, this nice MMC might leave me ...

Yes Bernd, they are. =)

Just to keep this actually good and interresting thread "alive" and to show you something really nice, here's my Bavarian MVK/MMC IInd class, IInd modell. Those were awarded from 1905 to 1913. It is maker marked "900 G.H." which stands for silver 900 fine, and the maker Gebr?der Hemmerle in Munich. PS: This one was bought about two years ago on eBay.com - for about US $30.-

Some really great examples. The last one reminds me to my former brass silvered "AWS". Does it have a makers mark on the back, upper part?!

Sans mots. I'm sorry, thought to be cleverer than all of you together, looking in an elderly catalogue ...

Well okay, thanks. So Thies wasn't right ...

Hey Jani, it is the bar of Korvettenkapit?n (at last Konteradmiral) Johannes Jantzen. At least A. Thies sold it as this in 2004.

Well okay, we all know there were only the ~40mm ones awarded, but if we're talking about this private purchased stuff I'd like to add that the "Prinzengr??en" vary in size. I had three different ones. The minis do as well, common are 16 and 9mm, but there are some others, even bigger and smaler than 16mm, as there were really many, many who manufactered and offered those back then. Maaaany, if you wanted any variation ...

Uwe, these two are very nice examples, thanks. Though I wonder why Nimmergut calls them not "Ehrenkreuz f?r ... " but "Ehrenzeichen ... " ... Well, actually I don't wonder anymore ...

Well, to make it 100% proper, you'll need a Native speaker, I fear ... The topic is "Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges 1914-1918", and the three versions (actually not "classes") are: - "Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer"; - "Ehrenkreuz f?r Kriegsteilnehmer"; - "Ehrenkreuz f?r Witwen und Eltern". The last one was awarded to the soldier's parents or(!) to his widow, so neither "Elternkreuz" nor "Witwenkreuz" is the right term, as it may be the one or the ohter.