Stogieman

Hi Brian, very nice. Unusual to see a broken 1914 one! A great history that seems to just keep growing!

Guess what? ANOTHER Bar with the Danzig cross! Gadzooks!

OK, so maybe not an award date but a commemorative inscription? I still think it looks legit, but can offer no explanation for the date/unit inscription.

I think you have a cross that has been cleaned within an inch of its' former life Claudio. The style of the engraving looks consistent with other Imperial era pieces, the syntax and abbreviations are all consistent with period use (another place BTW that the fakers seem to consistently screw-up).... I suspect that the cross is legit and the prior owner has removed every shred of age from it. Note that there is no patina on the front either and despite the obvious wear to the paint/core, the enamel looks rather shiny as does the exposed iron. I think it's a winner, if you like cleaned items. I would sure try to research his award date prior to buying the cross though.

I do not trust the veritable abundance of C. P?llath cases floating around the collector circuit these past few years..... nor do I really care for 99.9% of the "Bavarian" flight badges being flogged on dealer sites. In all my years of doing this, I've seen exactly three (3) authentic Bavarian (private purchase) Badges.......

Hi Brian, if "collector value" is of no issue or concern, then I do not understand why you would want to alter the piece at all. Wouldn't the best way to preserve your families heritage and the integrity thereof by keeping the group intact, well documented and together for the forseeable future? If collector interest isn't the concern at all, then I would suggest the best thing for you to do would be to find a museum in Germany that would accept your bequeath and honor your intent and concerns by preserving the group and its' history intact. I'm quite sure any number of the Prussian Military Museums would leap at that opportunity and honor your desires and concerns............ without altering the pieces themselves. Of course you could take a substantial tax break for the donation, but that would be a secondary benefit of knowing your heritage has been preserved.

You should be careful buying from Christian, he has had several batches of bad ribbon bars lately.

I don't know. I don't think it's a good idea and I think to even be assuming the grouping will be scattered to the wind is a pretty sad state of affairs. I've owned a number of pieces that were attributed and I have never considered altering them in anyway. I think doing this will seriously affect any "collector value" rather severely, but I suppose only time will tell that.

Interesting to see the Austrian Jubilee Medal on a Civil Ribbon (red-solid) next to the Centennial Medal

I think Ralph has one of these that was boxed??

Hi Ralph, a rather awesome grouping. Are the outer cartons maker marked at all, or all the same basic box?

And a very nice piece at that. very nice indeed. I have seen many similar ones, but never one quite this elaborate!

slightly altered scan:

Looks right to me, here's another example:

Hi Brian, I'd have to agree, I would not engrave the pieces at all.

Pricing is simple supply & demand. Imperial pieces will bring (usually) higher prices with the people who "need" the piece. Shop a few of the "major" (and I do use the term loosely) dealer websites and you will find pieces that have been sitting there for 2+ years........... this is a function of normal price trends. Dealer A thinks his FAK2 is worth $150.... it doesn't sell, but other dealers follow the 'trend' and raise their prices and there's a glut of over-priced FAK2's on the market that don't sell. Normal supply & demand, basic economics. Certain items will bring massive money in the hands of those that have knowledge and respect from collectors. Most items of this nature will trade hands privately and never see the light of day......... It is difficult to establish pricing for obscure rarities because in the proper circle these items are basicly a "name your price" piece. I'm not talking PLM's here either. I would submit that Imperial is hardly "undervalued" as Mr. Gottlieb has inferred, but more accurately priced than over-blown 3. reich items are these days. I have watched both war's materials spiral ever upwards over the past 6 years. However, we are in a situation as such: Finite supply of items overall Finite supply of buyers willing to pay the prices asked There you have it from a true economist. Remember people, you are discussing economics. Economics is unproven theory applied to surrealistic situations. And I suppose ya'll think that the Hurricane is responsible for obscene price increases in the 1000+ gallons of bought & paid for gas IN THE GROUND at your local service station's storage tank?? When people STOP buying gas at "Brigandich" prices, the price will come down quite nicely.......

As with many makers, you will find multiple maker marks over the period 1860-1945... For Godet, you will see: "JGuS", "G", "Godet", "Godet Berlin" and several variations thereof.. While unusual to find a RAO2 in silver-gilt, it certainly looks quite legitimate to me, based on the photos he's showing. Hope this helps!

This is a good place to interject that the backings, although different materials, have the same "narrow" strip that does not meet the edges of the back. The use of blue thread is a new touch.... must have run out of black/FG.... always uses materials that do not glow..... I think we have underestimated the sneakiness factor... Also, note that the Ohio Monstrosity will usually have full backing with tiny stitches (as well as hand-snipped catches)..... two patterns to make you think twice. Not all bars like this are bad.... but it's hard enough to find decent material without having to be suspicious of every piece you see.

And a third:

And another:

Our friend has started using the following two "handles" on Militaria-Web. montecassino fritz11 I suppose we could have 2 guys here, but they are both selling the same crap fakes, original ribbons, plates, note the backing/stitching on these:

Please see the "This Week's Ribbon Bar Fakes" Thread in the Imperial German Awards Forum for an update on this fraud.

I think any box with that black, grained finish, or blue grained finish with any silver lettering should be avoided like the plague. The interesting thing is there's no shortage of these boxes on the net being sold for exactly what they are.. repros. it's what happens after the fact when some clown starts buffing them, sanding them and screwing around that things can start to get very scary for many an unsuspecting collector.

Our friend Buffoon, I mean Baff sells on Militaria Web and other smaller German on-line auction houses...... I will see if I can dig out some of his various aliases.

Interesting thread. I've seen these spanges in 6mm, 9mm, 11mm. and a whopping 19mm. all on ribbon bars. Also, keep in mind there's a 24mm. "Prinzen" spange that was officially produced and mounted on medal bars.