Stogieman

And you too can pick up a nice cased example, with the award document for a mere 1500- Euro..... although it seems to me that same piece was available for considerably less, from the same dealer; not that long ago....

Reverse:

I am always surprised by how many of these packets have survived.

Hi Paul, yes. For me... WW2 is anything 1930-1945.

Thanks Anatoly!

Quite correct Ed... can't imagine how I left that one out!!

This is a good one to study. Note that this maker uses a very different and possibly unique folding of the ribbons. But also note that every single ribbon is folded the same...

Also remember guys that there are real-gold, higher content, with NO gold/maker stamps. The only way to determine is by weight. Scott, this is one to be very proud of, a rare gem in perfect "South-German" mounting style.

Excellent little non-combattant bar in flawless condition. Someone was very proud of this one. Based on the style, materials I would say probably mounted during WW2.

And this one is perfect, un-altered and just the way it should be. Study every detail closely...

OK, deep breaths Scott. First thing that stuck out to me on the bar was the 1870 EK2, The PCO4 and the LSC were all tied down with the same black thread accross the body of the crosses. Also, you can immediately see that the ?se (ring/knob) at the top of each piece is tied down differently. Look at the white thread on the RAO & the 2 KDMs. It is tied not only across the ?se, but also up the sides of the ?se as well. The three pieces I mentioned are not tied this way. Now..... things wear and break. The Centennial medal is not tied the same, it's loose... but if you look very closely I think you will see that the original threads/tie-down is still visible and once upon a time, this piece had the same tie-down. Note that whoever the original maker was he was quite meticulous and detail-oriented when the bar was originally made. The folds inside and out, the stitching pattern and the tie-downs would have been consistent on every single piece. Also, the thread used on those pieces looks brand new and like nylon, which simply did not exist during the era. Any time you buy a medal bar and see a deviation in any of these characteristics it should immediately make you put the brakes on and start examining everything very closely. Yes, there are sloppy bars, but it stands out as VERY out of place on this bar. Next we have to look at the 1914 repeat spange. With under 100 actual awards and this being one of the most heavily reproduced items of the Imperial Era.... it should immediately make you go "hold on a second"... The fact that it is not properly placed on the ribbon itself is another clue that something is amiss.... It's not properly centered... I suspect that ultimately you will find that the Jubilee Oak Leaves are a "dress-up" ploy as well. I cannot tell from the images if it is real or not... Scott, you have posted some magnificent pieces. You should be proud of what you've accomplished on your own. Yes, some of your pieces have been altered/played with but I remember dealing with you almost 10 years ago on eBay. It's not you making the boo-boo's, it's a few unscrupulous people that took advantage of you. The pieces you have shown that had some issues would be easily rectified. So welcome to the forum, live, learn and prosper and try to absorb as much as you can. There's some folks here who have been studying and identifying medal/ribbon bars since xerox was the best means of reproducing images and the internet was a secret idea in the brain of someone! We all have made no small number of mistakes over the years. I know how you feel.... I had no shortage of blunders years ago... I am not perfect, nobody is. But the collective knowledge here, freely shared, has helped all of us grow as collectors & custodians of history.

Heiko is right, probably used to represent FAM. The only thing that puzzles me is the use of swords. With years of collecting Saxony ounder my belt I have never seen swords used on a ribbon. Is it possible the ribbon is for something else?

Hi Christer, Thanks for sharing these. Nice collection. Note that your 1986 document states award #1512. Perhaps that's the total number of that class awarded up to that point?

Not common at all. I can count on one hand the number I have ever actually seen....

OK, that begats the big question! Do we see a different badge for each school as per Soviet style... or are all schools issued the badge shown by Taz? The example is the only style I have seen thus far. We know that at least Polish, Bulgarian and Hungarian Republics used a different badge for each school....

Scott, I don't think your mind should be at ease. Nor do I think you should be tearing apart your bars like this. The changes are evident from the front. Nothing else has been messed with. Someone has taken an original medal bar and replaced at least 3 of the medals, added the repeat bar, etc. The bar is good, the placement of incorrect medals is not. There's no reason to destroy the entire object over this. Take a deep breath..... sit back and try to learn from the experience. I spotted the different threads/tie-down style when you first posted this bar. It's unpleasant, but it's also reality. There's an entire industry that exists doctoring real medal bars and real parts. It's no better with ribbon bars. Fakes everywhere.... using real ribbon, real devices, etc.

Well, I'm sorry I didn't get here sooner. That was my exciting news. The "Lilac" RAO was a copy. Unfortunately, Scott has destroyed a perfectly good bar, that was salvageable...... not anymore. I can understand frustration and anger, but destructiveness.....

Well, this is always an interesting and passionate topic. I spent years and thousands of dollars trying to keep WW1 Aviation groups, especially photo albums intact. The first time I encountered this, the seller had an album with over 300 photos. Each one meticulously annoted in the album. He was ripping the pictures out, cutting up pages when he couldn't and throwing away all the rest........ need I say more?

I think there's something else interesting and unusual about this medal bar! Today's quiz! Who can tell me something else special about this bar?

Very nice NCO bar and tough to find medal to the Prussian Crown Order. Also nice & unusual to have the old-style NCO LSS in enamel on the bar. Note that the bar has consistent elements in all ribbons used. A useful clue in authenticating bars when inspecting them.

Scott, from these pictures; it appears that the 1870 EK2, The Crown Order and the long service cross have been tied to the bar with not only different thread from the last 2 KDM medals, but also in a completely different style of tying. This is not a good sign.

Actually, one always had to worry about a hook-back bar... even years ago. This one appears to have been a set-up from the word "go"; with your "local" dealer working very hard to take advantage of you for a very tidy sum, no doubt.

The bar is classic Saxon pre-1934 regulation changes mounting precedence. My guess is exactly as Heiko's. When the reg's changed and he was awarded the EK, he simply stitched it to the bar to save money.

Based on the photos shown, the cross looks like a nice original to me. The damaged enamel and lack of a case will hurt the sale. Put it up for under a grand and it should fly quickly. I will caution you that my opinion is based solely on the images shown. In hand would be the best determination of authenticity. It really comes down to that these days.

Bigger, up-close photos as well please!