JimZ

Now that you mention it.... Got a few uniform jackets back home that I should clear out as they are now totally irrelevant to my medal collection. From collecting everything under the sun I did kind of see the light and narrow down to ODMs. There should be 3 jackets and one other uniform that I can remember buying in the 90s. All 1980 stuff though! Also got some caps (about a dozen or so!) I'll see whether I can find any pics and post them in the for sale thread. Better clear them out as opposed to leaving them in a box completely out of sight!! At least as displays someone will enjoy them.......!

Hey Soviet -Very intersting pin back version. Goes to show that not all the russians were too keen on piercing their clothes to wear their awards. Is the screwback sawed or shortened. Seems cumbersome / uncomfortable to wear pinned with the screwback still fully intact. Always nice to see the 1985 commemorative GPW2 next to the original earlier issues. Although a solid order I really feel that the 1985 GPWs lacks a certain quality .... particularly if we compare early and 1985 first classes. Of course with mass production for 1985 commemoration its inevetible that the quality suffers. My question is as follows. The 1985 is purely a commemoritave award. Assuming a situation of a post 1985 catch up award for combat actions in WW2.... would the recipient receive 1985 version + award booklet or would they receive an earlier award. Of course at first glance the order is still an order. But I still think that a recipient of a combat award would of course look at the commemorative 85 issue through a slightly different lens. Jim

Christian - "Dull and stupid" and "such a complete idot and psychopath" is both impolite and unappropriate not withstanding what any expert says... and I am sure none chose those exact words. Fact is, it is not what you say ..... but how you say it that comes out very wrong and arrogant sometimes! That is why i express my own irritation. For that and no other reason! But lets drop this. As for discussing Zhukov, I am afraid I regret to express much interest in his military achievements or failings. Now if I owned his ODMs..... I'd really be all over the guy!! More importantly.... for this thread: Anyone got more pics of these early labour beauties in their collections? Lets be honest, they are by far not orders we usually come across on a daily basis....... so please show more. Regards, Jim

Well russian medals are trickier to mount in that they come with their 5 sided pin suspension plates! Gerd.....What are you doing? Pins...is that pinning through the ribbon?? If so its a bit intrusive I'd say....although having said that, I have umounted EK2 I should mount with my EKs.....get them out of their plastic wallets. On another note.... my suggestions to those of u with wives who beelieve that medals are competition to their beauty.....bigger frames with more medals per frame = less frames around the house and less competition with the wife...... My fave medels are in a frame near the TV. I glance at them more times per evening then I do at my dearest during TV time.... (only during TV!!!....actually medals compete with TV...never with my wife!!) If she knows I actually posted this she'll be on to my cunning scheme. Kidding!!! Thankfully she has had to come to terms with her boy and his toy(s)! Jim

Christian, And now it seems to me you don't exactly 'like' Zhukov either. I do not see that you should go so far as to hurl abuse at him in such impolite manner. Lots of people I do not like in history and for a great many number of reasons too!!! But I would never any of them names....no matter how deserving they may be!! So why you feel you are in a position to call Zhukhov a psychopath and a complete idiotic NCO of the Czarist army is beyond my comprehension. After all, you might know of Adolf Hitler from Branau (Austria), a corporal from the first world war did not fare much better when he dragged someone else's country (Germany), his own and the rest of the world into yet another world war.... I would never go so far as to call him a single name no matter how worthy he may be.... and will remain objective and polite at the mention of his name. I think that sometimes it would be good for you to get off your pedestal and try to respond to threads objectively and politely! I am sorry if your tone bothers me but I like to think of all of us here as gentlemen and think that we should behave as such! Although I can sometimes agree with you on some things, I do not necessarily agree with the way you chose to express yourself!! My humble opinion and regards! Jim

I disagree Christian. And I would love to see you saying that to an awardee of say ORB Labour, Labour Glory, or Badge of honour that he stinks of "swines, cattle, chicken"! I think labour took many different forms and was not only restricted to farm yard activity .... and even so, the GPW awards were handed out over a handful of years of very bitter fighting. But that still does not nullify the many more years of collective labour that made the USSR what it was. Gents please please please.....be biased as you please but do not disrespect these lovely labour awards....and their recipients. Its a matter of respect and nothing more. The USSR was not only made of hero's or soldiers! Jim

Aside from the fact that some 'collectors' will pay ridiculous prices, I'd say that some pieces are just not targetted at us mere mortal members of the modern day proletariat! I think that some prices just cannot be justified...we can of course all try to put our heads together but never really succeed in applying a formula! When a common order of the red star sells at 30 dollars....and the same red star (slighly different serial number of course but exact same variation) sells at over $100.....what more is there left to say.... and such discrepencies often be seen. We have witnessed prices spiral up and sometimes out of control. I sometimes discuss real present day market values with another collector friend of mine ..... and each of us have our own very different values per award. Some months ago, when evaluating a collection of around 650 medals...well more of a big dealers lot owned by someone who had an idea of market values ... it was interesting for us to compare and contrast our sometimes very different values per piece. Funnily enough, in spite of our sometimes very substantial differences on the value of all but the basic medals....our bottom line totals were only $150 away on the whole collection. Moral of the story....there is no real market value.... the value of each and every individual ODM is worth what the highest bidder will pay at any given moment Still, its interesting to see how long an overpriced order or medal may sit there......some of the dealer sites are indeed full and staying full....but what is the real turnover of existing dealer stocks????

Do I get this right.....$25,000 for oak leaves......??? Jeeesh! Guess that would help to buy some some of the heavier artillery in Soviet ODM.... ......Going out in the forrests to find me that silver oak leaf....or two! Jim

May I permit myself to revive the research threads I had started in the hope that members out there who can still contribute scans and relevant information will help to amass the data on serial numbers/dates of the orders in question. Yet again.....your assisistance is always mostly appreciated. Jim

May I permit myself to revive the research threads I had started in the hope that members out there who can still contribute scans and relevant information will help to amass the data on serial numbers/dates of the orders in question. Yet again.....your assisistance is always mostly appreciated. Jim

May I permit myself to revive the research threads I had started in the hope that members out there who can still contribute scans and relevant information will help to amass the data on serial numbers/dates of the orders in question. Yet again.....your assisistance is always mostly appreciated. Jim

No worries Dave, Not getting anyone wrong.... my comment was meant as nothing but a gentle reminder as to the fact that the less "valourous" labour awards should not be thought of as second rate awards. I confess that I too would prefer owning a medal awarded for heroic actions. Iprefer the combat Lenin to the long service Lenin....or maybe even to the milkmaid's Lenin! I confess my own bias. And from the research point of view I can fully appreciate the difference in feeling between military and labour awards. However, lets just bear in mind that the Soviet Union was forged not only by the mighty Red Army and a few years of intense fighting and terrible loss of life, but also by many more years (starting from the revolution to the collapse of the USSR) of hard and sometimes self sacrificing labour in the name of (now failed) communist ideals. We sometimes tend to forget or put aside these multitudes when discussing these awards! Jim

Hey guys!! Don't diss the labour awards. They also meant something to the people receiving them!! Also have some respects for the collectors that like these less 'valourous' orders too!!! IF the Glory 3 was issued for Afghansitsan you'd want to pay 10x the amount.....Well and good - Dave and Ed have set the market for an elusive Afghanistan Glory 3 at over $1,100. What I am saying is that as an unresearched award at $115 I personally think (IMHO) that its overpriced. If you wanna speculate on such a medal then you got equal (?) chance that it could be: a) a catch up award (where it would be worth more than its market value) b) an afghanistan award (where you'd be on to a winner based on your valuations) c) an unissued award (where I'd say you'd have thrown your money away.....my opinion only!) I say "equal (?)" as we seem to be unsure of Glories awarded for Afghanistan...then its more likely this is yet another catch up award. While on this thread any straight yes or no answers as to whether Glories were awarded for Afghanistan?? Records must exist if yes........ Jim

Ed & Dave, Notwithstanding all arguments on rarity and value it does boil down to what I said above earlier on in the thread. Market economics prevail!! Jim

Ok Guys How are you attaching medals to the frames? My way..... drill two holes in the back of the frame (nothing too pricey of course!!) ..... just behind the pin of my russian medals....in comes a length of plastic coated wire (no metal on metal pls!!) from one hole...twists around the pin and comes out of the other hole..... the wire is then tightened gently behind the frame neatly attaching the medal to the frame. Primitive but effective and also does not damage the medal. BUT ITS RUDDY TIME CONSUMING TO MOUNT AND UNMOUNT!!!! There's gotta be a better way.....I was thinking velcro..... Any better suggestions Gents....I mean please help me avoid re-inventig the wheel!!!??? Jim PS nice displays gents.

Christian - My oh my but are you obsessed by the Order of Glory!! Good thing you were not responsible for medals in the USSR or you'd have made collecting Russian awards rather boring for us all by handing out nothing but Glories!!! ..... Joking aside.... Lets see if we can try to reason this out.... NEVSKY T1 circa 500 T2 circa 6,000 T3 circa 36,000 GLORY 2 T1 circa 600 T2 circa 17,000 T3 circa 31,000 So T1 we'd understand would cost in the same regions....border reverse glory versus rectangular suspension Nevsky.....Understandable. T2 Nevsky is a hell of a lot rarer than the Glory2 T2 But Glory2 T2 and T3 is not perceived as being all that different to the average non variation collector. Such a collector might argue that a Glory 2 is a Glory 2 whether thin or thick! So that places T2 + T3 Glory 2s (totalling 48,000) against a T3 Nevsky (36,000) making the the T3 Nevsky less common in the eyes of many and there is less competition for a glory 2 than there is for a Nevsky. I am not saying that I agree.... but going on this logic I can understand why a Nevsky is worth more than a T2/3 Glory 2 in general. Then again, In my personal opinion ..... Glory 2 is a nice NCO award..... but Nevsky being officer material is more appealing to me!! Cavielier.... lets not go there! Glory 1 is less common with circa 4000 awarded. hence the price tag on that is different. Therefore back to this gorup......yes.... $550 - $700 I can understand and justify. More than and that i'd rather buy myself a Nevsky!! Jim

Thanks Stogie.... I now understand what you meant. All clear!!!

Gordon Gentlemen.... pray, raise your kegs to Gordon! To Gordon To Gordon To Gordon To Gordon To Gordon To Gordon Jim

Hi Dave, As you very well say - Buy the medal not the story. With research from the archives it still is a high amount to pay for the Glory 3rd but assuming it was Afghanistan it would almost be justified. As a catch up award, I'd not be too hot on it and once again not without research. But at the back of my mind I keep asking - what if this turns out to be a Glory that had not been awarded? Case in point - Order for Service to the Motherland. We both know what they worth....with and without research! But what about the serial numbered 130XXX and higher now seen in circulation. These have not been awarded and I for one value such an award less than one that has been awarded. So this Glory 3rd remains the highest any of us has ever seen. Yet my honest humble opinion remains that without research to back it up as an awarded glory, it remains overpriced. Jim

Brilliant!!! More please. On my usual very down to earth note..... such pics drive home the reality that the "Evil German Forces" were made of people just like you and me ....... Not that I did not already know that!!!!!! The German, Russian and British vets I have known where the loveliest people around... probably even more so by the experiences they had been through back in WW2. Jim

I just got a passing interest in EKs so I cannot contribute. I however think that if you have bought and own the piece its within your right to photograph it and publish your own pics on such a forum. Interesting how the more you think you know about a subject, the more you find out that you in fact do not! Jim

Hey Chris, Its the medal of victory over "Borsh" and "Shee" ... happenned in the 1990s when good old wholesome russian food met its match! I'd half suggest that the ribbon colours are the Ronald McD colours. Yikes....even thinking of the name alone gives me the runs..... Gotta go quick.......!

"Possibly" and "might" Not words i'd like to see in a description of a medal I was trying to buy unless I knew better than the seller. Words that give room for doubt make me spend my money elsewhere. "Possibly" an attempt to add to the value of this award. "Might" not be plausible..... Not passing any judgement on this high serial numbered glory 3...only on the grey shadow casts by the last 2 lines of the description. Of course only research would ever answer this....but $115 for a Glory 3rd......high serial number or not....Afghanistan or not..... we're on the road to perdition. Jim

Amplify please Stogieman. "the award card and citation for Glory 2 were in the group. The other citations were not part of it" What does that mean? As for prices, lets face it. the value of this group I'd say lies in the 550 - 700 MAX range and I would not look to pay more that that myself. However, it is rightly said that ridiculous prices are being paid by some Russian collectors repatriating russian awards. When Russians prefer to come and do their shoping here in Switzerland as it is much more affordable than Moscow I can only start to understand the some times ridiculous prices. Having said that, this is the competition we are up against. They say that an army marches as fast as its slowest soldier. In similar fashion I say awards are worth what the highest bidder is willing to pay in each specific case. We can sit and argue about value of an award or group all night long, but I can assure you, that not even before sunset comes, someone with an interest *and a wad of cash) will take it from under our noses. I personally have bought items from dealers at exorbitant prices. But I have also bought similar genuine items for a quarter of the price some other items were offerred at. Where is the real value of these awards? Some people would pay $40-$50 for a glory 3rd. If it was the only medal missing in a documented group of yours what would you pay for it? Price is so very subjective. Jim

[attachmentid=59271] [attachmentid=59272] The same applies here. A copy is a copy is a copy! Always and forever....with or without docs. Amen.