Mike McLellan

Don't mean to butt in, Alli and Jean-Samuel, but I couldn't help overhearing you two. What a beautiful collection! Absolutely stunning. The frame-work is first-rate as well. Mike.

Wow. Absolutely beautiful job.

Wow. What a great hide-away. If you add an over-stuffed chair and mount a urinal on one wall, you could barricade yourself in there for days at a time. Very, very nice! Mike.

I don't mean to display my ignorance to the whole world, but I could use a hint as to where this is from. I identify three castles as either Dublin or Newcastle-upon-Tyne. The shamrocks offer a clue, but the tiger and elephant leave me clueless (my normal comfort zone). Can you help educate the confused masses and tell us something about this beautiful busby badge. Thanks, Mike.

Thanks David. I hadn't thought of that, but I'm reasonably sure that the same (private purchase) practice was true with truncheons and tipstaves at times. Thanks also for the photo. Your collection is a real treat to see. I've only glimpsed a small part of it, but am genuinely amazed. Thanks again. Mike.

I've just been through all thirty three pages of this amazing thread, and I don't see an example of the badge I've attached. Does anyone know anything about it? Date? I'm assuming that it's from the Metropolitan SC, but I've never seen one like it. The current owner wants a value, but I don't know what to tell him.

That is a beauty! I'd be honored to get clubbed with such a fine work of art.

Presuming that "Num-Chucks" are a centuries old attention-getter from China, it's probably safe to conclude that any of these modifications share the same DNA. I'm reasonably sure that their development pre-dates Isaac Newton's thoughts on inertia and centrifugal force by a few millennia. I've seen relatively crude examples on eBay from time to time. I think your research might need to be expanded to include these ancestors to saps, black jacks, and the like. There are a few books on truncheons, but a comprehensive treatise on the whole range of bludgeons would be a great project for a young researcher, like yourself, to undertake. Good luck. Mike.

It looks like your patience and determination have paid off handsomely. You seem to have envisioned the end result right from the beginning, and remained focused until the end result was at hand. I can't think of anything that would improve your kit. Thanks for allowing us to walk through the process with you. Well done. As a bonus, I've finally learned what Ayedeeyew stands for! I missed it in your introductory post! Cheers, Mike.

It seems that the trios without the 1897 clasp far outnumber those with it. You have one of the "good ones". Without knowing for sure, I'd wager my son's allowance that rehires were encouraged for the City Police. Traffic and crowd control must have been a major undertaking within the square mile. By the way, I think we all like pictures. Cheers, Mike

I couldn't possibly let a Detrooit Police thread get past me without showing off a little. In the 1980s Smith & Wesson produced a boat-load of model 10 revolvers for the Detroit Police Dept. They're not too scarce yet, but finding one in un-fired condition is getting harder as time goes by. Years later, when DPD changed to semi-auto pistols, Glock made the same offer.

Hey, I got one of them!

Now this would raise a red flag that even I might notice.

Hi Ed. While rummaging through my "other" box, I found this breast badge that I thought might be interesting. The writing is pronounced Mishterah Yisrael, or Israeli Police, like your lower cap. The upper cap, in addition to Israeli Police says Mishmar HaGobol or Border Guard. The emblem on the lower cap is the cap badge with an M in the middle for Mishterah. I have a hat badge around here somewhere. Both badges are cheaply made, but kind of cool none the less.

Hi Ed. Sorry. My daughter has called first dibs on my old badge. I do have a couple of earlier examples. First is the hat badge. In all the years I worked at the Fairbanks Correctional Center, I only remember one occasion where an officer wore a hat that this badge adorned. Most often, staff either owed a baseball-type cap or nothing. The official hat was a gray deputy style. Most people thought it was dorky. I'm not sure if this badge is still authorized. The next two are breast badges that were worn on the belt in the late 1970s or early 1980s. They were not issued by the Department of Corrections, but issued by the Superintendent at F.C.C. They were withdrawn after an overzealous correctional officer felt the urge to flash his badge at a female driver that he wanted to "pull over" on the highway. He was not charged with impersonating a police officer, despite that fact that COs have NO authority beyond the perimeter fence. But, he caused the superintendent a bit of embarrassment. Since then, they have been used to adorn plaques given to retiring officers. One is in pretty good shape and the other has pretty much all of it's lacquer worn off.

I don't mean to dredge up old business, but I'm relatively new on this forum, and only stumbled across this thread today. I'm not sure that your badge is a fake. The only difference that I can see between your badge and mine, which I know is legit, is that the letters within the scroll are stamped rather than in relief. Detroit PD has a history of being pretty casual in terms of uniform items, and their badges bear no makers name. I know that there are a lot of unauthorized copies seen on ebay, but I can assure you that there have also been a lot of unauthorized badges worn by police officers, on and off duty, They are very cheap badges to produce, and judging a piece's authenticity based of workmanship is futile. The important thing to remember is that flashing that badge can get you into a Detroit Tigers ballgame gratis!

Hi Speagle. I stumbled upon this post this morning. I spent 25 years with the Alaska Department of Corrections. All of it at the Fairbanks Correctional Center. Your badge is a lapel pin / tie clasp that was modeled on the badges that were in use in the 1990s. I dug mine out of the sock drawer for a photo. It was meant to be worn on the belt rather than worn on the breast. I retired in 2001. Around 2005, the department issued new badges to all the officers. I don't have a photo of the new ones, but they are grey with black lettering. Kind of subdued, but quite ugly (my opinion of coarse).

Thanks!! My great-great grandmother was transported on a prison ship to Canada for beating her drunken husband to death with an Aberdeen magistrates staff. I wonder...

Hi Alf. Your truncheon looks American to me, and the 4 digit control number seems to suggest that it came from a large department. I have seen number tags fastened to military truncheons as well. There are some real experts on this forum, and hopefully, one of them will weigh in. Mike.

Thanks for the comments, Polsa and Alan. My first guess, when I saw the CS W at the top, was that this must be one of Charlie Watts' drumsticks that was lost or discarded at a very early Rolling Stones concert. Could be worth a fortune someday.

I posted this thread to lure Mervyn out his lair, knowing he would not be able to resist the temptation to weigh in, and either agree with me, or, in a sentence or two, prove me wrong. I was aware of his frailty, but I really wanted to engage him...just one more time. Our conclusions were not always in sync, but the dialogue was invigorating and informative. I really, really miss that old fart. Mike.

They say that there is no such thing as an irreplaceable man. 'They' are wrong.

Coincidently, on ebay recently, a seller offered what he assumed was a truncheon or sporting implement. In fact, it was a seaman's fid, a rope splicing tool. It bore a brass plate that said "Nimrod Boston 1881". Nimrod was one of the ships that Shackleton took on his trek south in 1892, I believe. I bid on it, hoping that nobody else would discover its true function and identity, but alas, several others did their homework, and, much to the seller's surprise, this small artifact brought in a handsome price. I don't recall what the hammer price was, but it was beyond my means at the time. Just does to show; keep your eyes open! Mike.

I hear, over and over, the phrase, "If this thing could talk, what a story it could tell". That's true of just about anything that we collectors stumble across, and old police truncheons, especially, seem to be bursting with history and personality all their own. Sadly, often times, their reticence can be broken only with pain-staking research, questionable provenance, and the collective knowledge of those who came before us, and are willing to share their ideas and opinions with us. The common caveat that runs through all of this gathering of knowledge is the understanding that all, or most, of the information gleaned can be totally incorrect. Luckily, we have researchers like Fenn Clark, Mitton, Cooke, and others who have done a tremendous amount of research that enables us to make fairly accurate assessments of the old painted truncheons that come our way. A case in point is this truncheon that I recently picked up (on the cheap). I'll tell you what I think about it, and why. As shown, It shows the City of London arms, the letters CS at the top, a W underneath, and a P over the numeral 1. First, the COL emblem (with barely visible Wat Tyler's dagger) is situated within a fiddle-shaped cartouche rather than the usual COA pattern, or the oval associated with the SC or the Chartist Riot issued sticks. The absence of a crown or monogram suggests a purely municipal authority. The maker's stamp on the butt, PARKER over HOLBORN (1796-1841), suggests that it probably predates the establishment of the City of London Police (1839). That, in turn, reinforces the likelihood that this truncheon was used by a "Watch" acting under some civic authority. If we assume (never a wise move!) that the W denotes Ward authority, it's not a far stretch to conclude that CS might identify the ward as the Coleman Street Ward. I don'r believe that the P stands for police, patrol, or portreeve, but is used to more specifically identify the area of authority, such as parish or precinct, of which Coleman Street Ward had six. The number 1, I think, reinforces the location as the 1st Precinct, rather than identify some exalted person as "Numero Uno". Ergo, my dear Watson, I must conclude, with all the confidence of a lonely old man growing delirious out on the frozen tundra, that I have accurately identified this little piece of history. On the other hand, as stated above, my conclusions may well be crap. Your opinions, as always, are welcome. Mike.

Hi Oldscrew. I don't recall where that badge came from. I got it along with a small bag of colonial prison badges about 35 years ago, most of which I've long since parted with. I think that it was originally from Africa. I saved it because it's very similar to a badge I once saw on a very old woodcut print of a prison officer transporting a wagon load of prisoners. I think it started life mounted on a shako or similar head dress. It's still one of my favorites. Mike.