hunyadi

In the interior for the quality inspection stamp of the same tunic with the cuff tag, we have a round style stamp. Of interest here is that the quality inspection stamp is HR - or Honved Clothing Warehouse. This give rise to my own speculation that this may have been a place where the factory did not provide a second inpsector, but as regualtions stipulated that another inspector from the Controll Agency had to be present. More research is needed - but at this time finding the regulations about this in the Honved Gazette after 1950 have not been located. This stamp also shows that it was inspected in 1953 and the lower portion has the inspectors number.

here is the matching "lot number" on one of the pocket flaps. This mark is also on the front piece of fabric, the sleeves, the back, etc...on every part.

For a more practical look - here is an example: What I have here is an unissued summer weight gymnastikora type tunic known as the "M51" - here is the sleeve tag. This one has the inspectors number on the upper right hand side (2042) then HM (Honved Technical Engineering Warehouse - but as this is after 1950 is could also be going to the panzer's warehouse) Then it has "Savoly ingzubbony" (Twill shirt tunic) and the lot number "C36419". On nealry every part of the tunic (before manufcture) this C36419 is stamped in white paint like ink. I believe that this was used in manufacture so that all the parts for tunic number C36419 were put together - this was also probably an easy way to do inventory. First shot is the cuff tag

On April 10th 1947 the Hungarian Defense Forces published a system of inspection for nearly every aspect of the military. Everything that was to be inspected fell under the jurisdiction of the Controlling Agency of the Hungarian Military. This agency was internal to the Honved and set their specific standards according to the requirements of the Ministry of Defense. The Controlling Agency was also broken down into several branches that were instructed to handle certain items such as medical equipment, engineering items, clothes, etc. The scopes of such inspections were massive and nearly all encompassing. Everything from personal equipment, uniforms, shooting ranges, vehicles, medical equipment, furniture in the barracks and nearly everything else had a prescribed system of quality inspection. Every item had a prescribed method of inspection from the initial manufacture to being inspected once the item was used. The only item that was expressly forbidden to be inspected was the food. During the period of 1947 to 1956 the regulations for such inspection did not change drastically. To insure quality control from the factory where the items were produced a set series of inspections were to be required before any Hungarian soldier could receive or use anything in the military. When an item was to be manufactured there had to be a standardized and approved method of inspecting the raw materials before assembly. This had to be approved by the Controlling Agency and the factory that received the materials. Then the method of manufacture and the worker?s qualifications also had to pass validation. Once the final product was produced there was a final inspection before it was accepted. In the final examination two individuals were required to certify that the product was acceptable for use. One individual would be from the Controlling Agency and the other from the sending factory. In instances were the factory could not supply a qualified inspector, then the Controlling Agency was to provide another inspector, but the inspector could not be from the same department. In other words, if the regular inspector was from the clothing division, then the second person could not be from that division, they had to come from a different source. The Controlling Agency had a specific design for the stamp that provided vital information as to which division inspected it, what year the inspection was done and a designation that showed which person had performed the inspection. The factory inspector was also to provide similar details in their stamp but the stamp had to be significantly different that that of the Controlling Agency. In the cases where the items needed to be transported from the factory to the warehouse, the items fell under the rules of transportation. Under these rules certain items were required for inspection before and after transport and could be stamped or marked accordingly. Also when the products were produced they had to be sent to the Inventory Agency of the Honved after the final stamp of the Controlling Agency was put on the product. Again in certain instances the Inventory Agency required certain stamps of approval. In all total a normal product that fell under certain jurisdictions of inspection could have four or more inspection stamps on it. In the regulations printed in 1947 there are examples of the officially accepted design of the inspection stamp of the Controlling Agency. The stamp was required to have an ?H? for Honved followed by a letter that designated what division it was from. Main Quality Control Department: K Clothing Warehouse: R Health Institute: E Animal Health Institute: A Cartography Institute: T Vehicle Warehouse: G Train Warehouse: V Technical Engineering Warehouse: M Signals Warehouse: H Weapons Warehouse: F Ammunition Warehouse: L In 1949 the mark of the Technical Engineering Warehouse "M" was expanded to include the military branches of the River Flotilla and the Armored Troops Warehouses. In addition the designation for the Air Force warehouse was given the same designation as the Ammunition; "L". For products that did not pass the inspection of the Controlling Agency, a special stamp was incorporated. This stamp also bore the ?H? for Honved, the letter of the division and the year of inspection. In addition to this two "V-V" were placed. This designation let the factory know that the certain product did not live up to expectations. In certain cases the item may have been destroyed, but where this became a financial burden then the item would be sent back for repairs. Once the product was repaired, the inspector from the Controlling Agency would then put a separate stamp of approval. This different stamp would bear a similar mark, but with the addition of the letter "E" which meant that the item had been ?controlled?, but that it now passed inspection. Without this stamp the receiving warehouse or institute was to reject and send back any item that solely bore the "V-V" mark. There were four basic types of stamps from 1947. The first is the round rubber stamp used for stamping soft items. Then a rectangular stamp for metal objects and a tall rectangle for items made of wood. Finally there were small stamps that were designed to go into lead plugs for affixing to items that could not be easily marked with inspection. The round rubber stamp style was 35mm in diameter. The metal stamp was specified to be 8.7mm the rectangular stamp for wood items were to be 33mm in height and 26mm wide. Finally the lead plug stamp was to be 10mm in diameter. These dimensions remained consistent up to about 1950. Though there are no official records of any changes made to the stamp in the Honved Gazette, it appears that in 1950 a new rectangular rubber stamp replaced in some instances the round rubber type. (But not all!) This rubber stamp used in the 1950?s and onward was 35mm wide and 25mm tall.

Last Wed - made a botched attempt at seeing the Museum of the Chidren's Railroad that was formed as a KISZ / DISZ program. On the wall where we could see were some posters of the old period. This was one of them. Of interest is the badge she is wearing on her lapel - the Kivalo Dolgozol of the Childrens Railroad.

The book I was refering to in the lower portion of the text is the book "Kituntetesek" and the author that I will be meeting with who has more knowledge about the partisan badges and the variations is Makai Agnes.

Well - I guess it might be a "special unit" of the "Rakocsi Krumpli" (a specialized Hungarian potato dish) type?

back of the bar

last year I was offered a cased one for pocket change

I have started this thread to inform the community of my personal research with the Hungarian Partisans Association. As more information comes about I will add more to the post and I encourage anyone with any more information that they can add about the association to please post that as well. To begin with I met with Dr. Agnes Godo one of the authors of "Magyarok az Europai Antifasiszta Ellenallasi Mozgalmakban" I had a short discussion about the purpose and scope of a book I am writing on the Hungarian period of 1945 - 1959 and explined that the history of the organization , the members and the badges and documents were the scope that I wished to know more about. A little about Dr Godo before I continue - my coleague who helped to translate for me and who holds a degree in history thought that Dr Godo was too young to have actualy participated in partisan activity during WW2 - we were both wrong. Dr Godo came from a family of Hungarian descent who lived in the Slovak region before the First World War - after the 1920 Treaty of Trianon, the former Hungarian family found themselves as Slovaks though they still spoke Hungarian in the home. As a young girl during WW2 she became to loathe the German occupation and the stories of the extermination camps. She loved to ride her bicycle and even when asked today if she liked to ride she became very emotional as it was a passion of her's. She was part of a youing girls bicycle club in Brataslava when in 1944 the Slovak Partisan Uprising began. The partisans recruited the young girs of the bicycle club to act as courriers between the various partisan cells. The Germans hardly checked young girls on their bicycles so she never had any bad encounters. But she felt she was young and it was all an adventure to her at that age. When asked about her membership in the Partisan associaiton she said that it never became a point in her life - but I also sensed that the period and the events perhaps persuaded her not to seek membership. Being 16 in 1944 meant that she would have been a young adult during 1949 when Rakosi began to purge the Hungarian partisans who had collaborated with Tito and the Yugoslavian movement - as she was with the Slovak Paritsans - who could know that this group was not next. In all of her assocaition with the Hungarian Partisan Association, many have known what she did, but she never wanted a badge or a document to remind her of her fight against fashism. She knew what she did. That was enough for her. One of my first questions to Dr Godo was the 1945 law (5503/IG FTITK-1945) which is referenced to in another law 5821/IG FTITK-1945 where it refers to six points that determine the qualifications of a "partisan". I wanted to know exactly what those requiremetns were - hwever the 5503/IG FTITK-1945 law is missing in both the national library and the military musuem library. Dr. Godo explained that the Federation of International Resistance (F.I.R.) created a lisitng of the six reqiremetns of being classified as a partisan in August of 1951 when it signed its UN charter. She believes that these six points would have been the same as the six points in the 1945 law. But she also later explained that she in her research reuired at least six individuals to confirm the claim of being a partisan before she would ever consider a persons claims to be genuine. Dr Agnes Godo also gave me a brief hisotry of the organization from a more pracitcal perspective. From 1945 to 1948 she explined that this was the "pure" time of the organization. No one questioned the men and women who laid claim to their partisan activity - it was well documented and they were a close knit group, at the beginning of 1949 all this began to change when political points were given out for those that "seemed" to have fought fasism. She refered it to the thousands of partisans who's claim to the title was "kicking the dead German horse on the side of the road" - 1949 was also the purge of the partisans when Rakosi perseciuted those that had anything previously to do with the Yugoslavian Partisans as they were no longer pure - fear ruled, and those that joined were the "horse kickers" looking for political positions. This was further emphasised when the "new badge" was given out in 1954. I showed her some exampled of the 1954 type and she viewed them with animosity, but when she saw the first type she was mcuh more pleased at the history behind them. When I explained further that the National Museum held a 1954 example with the number "1" and the Natl Museum had claimed that the badge was supposedly given posthumiously to Tibor Szamuely - she scoffed at the idea as he was never a partisan (he he been executed in 1920 for writing about the White Terror of the anti-communist forces after the Kun Bela Hungarian Soviet Republic collapsed in 1919). She continued that during the 1950's and up to the 1980's the organization became a purely communist "leftist" organization that was only bent on political matters. This attitude continued untill the 1980's when it formed a new purpose - to fight the growing Fashist and Neo-Nazi movements in Europe. According to her in the 1980's the Hungarian Partisan Associaiton began to accept memebrs who had never participated in WW2 - who had never kicked a dead German horse - but those individuals who through literature, education, social work, etc... were directly countering the Neo-Nazi movement in Hungary. When I asked if she knew if these people were awarded badges she agreed that they were - I showed her my one un-numbered example and she agreed that this was probably the type issued to them. So perhaps the un-numbered ones are truly and end product of the HUPR period and therefore display the lower quality. In the early 1990's the Hungarian Partisan Association became MEASZ (Magyar Ellenallasi Antifasiszta Szovetseg) with the purppose of fighting the growing rise of fashism in Europe once again. They do not issue badges anymore to my understanding. Dr Godo has agreed to meet with me further so that I can get more infomration on the activities and the personalities of the organization - for that I can only be thankful. Many may still be wanting to know about the member lists and the numbers on the back of the bages - to her knowledge she does not know that the list exists with the organization anymore but suggested that the national archives may have it - or one of her coleagues who has a similar interest in the badges and medals (also an author of an older medals book) Soon I will be meeting with that contact - more to come folks!

Forgive my ignorance - but by everyones comments so far - these are rare?

Sorry - had missed the part on the price we got so tied up with the name... but a fair Ebay price would be in the $25-30 range as its a complete set - add a few more for a carrying document and if there was a full size document then add another $10 or so.

From my understanding the medal was to be worn on the bar when the breast badge was not worn. The device on the ribbon was to give the indication of what class you were entitled to. When the Order was awarded in the I, II, III, IV th classes a medal such as this came with the box. Later this medal without a device on the ribbon was awarded as the Vth class.

Keith - thanks for the confirmation of what I was thinking - but what still gets me is the lack of a Karl Troops Cross, or a Wound Medal, and some form of the Long Service Medal. If the guy was in service in 1908, but was not mobilized in 1912/13 for the Balkans that may explain him as a conscript in 1908 (?) who then exited after his two years, then he must have jouned the military at some point before / during the war and comissioned as an offcier (Merit Medals?) Servced in WW1 then mustered out (so he has about 5 years in as an officer?) Then gets called up in 1938 /39 and is given his rank back... thats a plausable chance - but then looking at some uniforms that I own of the period there is a tendancy to throw 8 and more medals on the upper rack before starting a second row. Perhaps he is also just omitting some medals for the photo shoot. Its a great and nice photo - with an interesting maedal bar, but the true history is forever porbably lost.

Here is a better write up that I did on the "Wound Badge Section" for the award as it was awarded for wounds as well... http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13236

Yep - its a great little bar with a treaure of history behind it. Having just a 1943 fire cross is not uncommon - if the person was mustered up in 1942 / 43 for the 2nd Hungarian Army, he would have not qualified for the "Return of Hungary" trio. Also - just being at the front lines never guaranteed you a bravery medal either. Its just an interesting bar from the standpoint of Hisotry - fight the Russians then the Germans and then the Russains again. As far as Horhty era medals are concerned - anything that bears his image (IE bravery medals, etc...) is allowed, but that crowd is now very old and nealry all paased on. This one showed up in a medals store and I think the family brought it in after grandpa passed away. Frustraiting how they hardly ever get then name or any of the history when I buy them

Its one of two things - A non-official school or fraternity medal from the 1930's or a 1960's Lake Balaton Surfers / Biker Gangs medal that chanted "Die Kaddar Kismalac!" as they rode through the town. IMHO - fantasy piece made with the center piece of a WW2 Hungarian Knights Cross...thats about the only original part to my eyes...

So he got it for Cooking Lessons? Very interesting. I have actualy found a couple of these in the past, but have passed on them as my Russian language left my head when the Hungarian invaded. (In reality I was actuly conversing very fluently with my Muldovian negigbors for over two year until I had to learn Hungarian....)

Distinguished Reformer? - When I read the regulations on pg 75 its more like "Excellent Innovator" - or for someone who made an invention or for those who figured out a better process in industry, chemistry, manufacturing, etc... Distinguished Reformer sounds like Martin Luther or Karl Marxx???

Can anyone tell me what this is for? My basic knowledge of the cyrilic alphabet leads me to believe that this is to a Hungarian, but for what?? Dont know - help....

The official name is the "Tuz Kereszt" - "Tuz" is the word for "fire" and "Kereszt" is the word for "cross" - its a combat, military medal - not for the fire department. "A Hazaert" is our phrase "For the Fatherland". The award broke down roughly as - plain: for mobilized troops within the Hungarian borders (not occupied lands!) - these are super rare! / with wreath: for troops in the occupied areas and in rear areas of the front (the exception seems to be artillery though) / with swrods: for troops who could "see the whites of their eyes" and run a bayonette through the gizzard of the enemy. Even though Artillery troops hardly got that opportunity but were in direct combat with the enemy they qualified for the version with swords. Also the medal was awarded with small 5mm aluminium bands running horizontal on the ribbon signifying wounds recived.

Right place - right time - and knowing what to look for...

Well - tyring to get to the older posts - The Fire Cross was instituted in 1941 when Hungary participated in Operation Barbarossa and previously the short Balkan Campain. This fire cross could have been awarded to someone who was "near" the front as it has a wreath in the center - a Fire Cross without a wreath was esigned for mobilizing troops and troos stationed in the borders of Hungary. In 1941 when the cross was intistuted the lower arm was designed to bear the year of bestowal of the recipient. The reverse of the medal was to have the year "1941" stamped into the reverse - but as there were several manufacturers of Hungarian medals and orders - this did not always happen, so you get cast ones, one piece and two piece, 1941 stamped into the reverse, and plain, etc... The natural progression of the war allowed for crosses to bear the 1942 and then 1943. There was never a produced cross (perhpas a prototype at most) with the year 1944. Now to throw into the mix the cirteria of the award (certain time in a combat zone or zone of occupation) some people were apparently awarded crosses with the dates 1938 and 1940 on them for the First and Second Vienna Awards where Hungary was given back a portion of Slovakia (1938) and then the hotly disputed (to this day) Transylvanina region (1940). However these are so rare that even the curator of medals and orders at the Hungarian Military Musuem has never seen one - but there is enought written material (period and modern) that supports that these were indeeed produced.

I'm a little slow t getting around to this section. Yes - this is exacty a new issue - they can be bought fairly easily - so the lustre of the title is a bit lost on these. Most of these that I have seen come with a clutch back pin system and pale in comparision to the WW2 ear ones - they were awarded into 1948 BTW. However by (as memor serves right) 1942-3 the priveledge of land had been used up and was no longer available to new recipients (who by that time were getting the award for battlefield merits in WW2) As for the hereditary nature of the award it still is passed on to the oldest son and apparently those who would have been bestowed the title by being the oldest son - yet were denied the title by the 1949-89 period can apply to have the titile awarded.

Found this photo of a parade in the 1960's - 1970's (no date on it). But I had to admire the huge "Kivalo Dolgozol" badges hanging from the banner - I want one!