GreyC

Hi, 1a) Äskulabstab=Abzeichen für Sanitätsmannschaften: worn by those medics, tht were part of the Linien-and Garderegimenter and such. uring peacetime one San-Uffz or San-Gefreiter per company, that makes 4 per battailon with infantry and artillery regiments, 5 with cavalry-regiments. After mobilization of troops per infantry or Jäger-Btl. 1 San-Uffz and 16 medical orderlies. With each battery, escadron or supply unit 1 San Uffz each. All these wore (from February 1909) the regular uniforms of their respective units and on the right sleeve the Äskulabstab with Schlange, but only to be attached at outbreak of war. It was worn on work-clothes (Drillich), uniformjacket (bunt oder feldgrau), coat or later Bluse M1915. During war on left arm the Red Cross sign. If they worked in a Lazarett they also wore the batch (Jürgen Kraus: Die feldgraue Uniformierung d. deutschen Heeres 1907-1918, Bd. 1, S. 314). Landsturm units also had medics with the batch. 1b) Strecher bearers did not have that Aesculab batch. They only wore the Red-Cross brassard. HILFS-Krankenträger wore a red brassard. Photos of these are RARE. GreyC

Thank you for proof for my assumption in my last post. GreyC

Pleasure! GreyC

Hi, Because he was registered there (somewhere in Bavaria). It did not matter where you were born, but where you lived at the time you where called to serve. Given the LD2Kl was awarded in 1903 (presuming he did not serve actively after his time in the reserve) these were awarded upon entering the Landsturm, he started service around 1890/1891. You said as Einjähriger which makes sense given his background. Interesting though, that he wasn´t promoted to Officer status earlier than 1917 as Einjähriger. For me that means he found no regiment that wanted to have him as officer. (Just read the WIKI article that confirms my assumption). As he was promoted in 1917, when he was already out of the Reserve I guess Offizier der Landwehr would be correct. Best, GreyC PS Having just read the WIKI article in which it says that after the Abitur he did an apprenticeship, this could well have been in Bavaria. PPS: The Stammrollen for the Bavarian army are available at the Bavarian State Archive in Munich. The peacetime ones are not online, but with name, unit and approx. date of entry you could request a copy of his data from there, I presume.

Hi ArHo, that´s interesting. Blank reverse are not rare but most studios had designs on them that were / are typical for their times, so that it could have been possible to determine whether it was actually (as I still think) a photo from mid/late 1870s or indeed one from the beginning 1880s. The front-design was popular and was in use from the 1870s to the early 1890s. But the typo is more 1870s. GreyC

Hi, I already dated the Ratibor photo in my previous post and offered to try my luck with the Berlin photo if reverse is suplied by you. Best, GreyC

Hi, I would support Bayern this once ? G. Steffens had his studio under this address from 1870 to 1885. I would date the photo to the 2nd half of the 1870s. A scan of the reverse could help to narrow it down further. The 1st photo (Ratibor) was taken 1890-1892. I have (in my collection) a dated photo from the studio with a similar design. Two very nice photos! GreyC

Ahh, interesting! Thanks for posting this. GreyC

It´s a single shoulder board (German Army) for an officer working at the Landwehr-Inspektion Karlsruhe. That´s why he has a gothic "K" on the board. Not very long in existance from 1912 onwards. Nice! GreyC

I know that there were quite a few foreigners in German regiments at that time, from Siam, Turkey and other states, some of who you´ll find in the German Ranglisten. But they would (dependent on their military status) wear either a German uniform or (as observers) the uniform of their respective country. What irritates me with this photo is the combination of German cavalry uniform and Chinese helmet. GreyC

He might have been involved in shipping the troops from Germany to Africa or in organising the transport as part of the responsible navy staff. GreyC

Here is an officer of the 4th GGR in a fieldgrey tunic M1907 on a Xmas card for 1915.

Indentant (should read Intendant) Dr. Heyne GreYC

Hi just a few remarks to what Utgardloki wrote: 1) Sütterlin-Schrift was not introduced to Prussian schools till 1915 and only replaced the former type of writing (old German current) slowly, so all the writing from letters and postcards etc. originating in WW1 are NOT Sütterlin (Utagrdloki didn´t say that, but just to make sure, as 1911 was only the date the Prussian Ministry asked Sütterlin to devise a new script). 2) After the Normalschrift-Erlaß Antiqua was to replace the Schwalbacher bit by bit, not on the spot. It was also intended first for official govenment and party (NSDAP) use, then for school and then for others. Journals and books printed for distribution in foreign states had priority with the conversion, as it was rightly presumed, that it would be easier for foreigners to read Antiqua. So the complete conversion to Antiqua in all publication took a while. 3) Names in official documents, especially in civil registry office documents were (to my knowledge) always in Latin current. GreyC

For me he is Bavarian, as he wears the Bavarian medal in front of the EKII. If he wears a Prussian simplified Feldrock I can´t say.The Aschinger Borte or Bayerische (Kennzeichen)borte was introduced on 31.03.1916. On 10.12.1917 the Borte was shortened. GreyC

The state I live in has a museum that holds a fine collection of almost all medals state and privately issued from that state and the department is led by a very knowledable guy who helped me once with aquery. Maybe the city museum of Hannover has something similar? GreyC (but you may call me Graham ?

Interesting. The only Staatskalender I have is from 1834, as ancestors worked for the state at that time. I thought he might have been listed in his capacity as Ritter with his Gut. But the 18th century is a bit early for me, so thanks for filling me in. GreYC

The colour of the ribbon seems dark blue. Would that point to a certain state? And wouldn´t his medals be listed in the Hannoversches Staatshandbuch or Kalender? GreyC

Augenleiden (Nachtblindheit) GreyC

Interesting, but still not to be found under any of these first names in loss-list. Where did you find the birthdate? Best, GreyC

This is an old thread, but maybe some of you read this by chance. In that thread reasonable doubt was voiced with regards to authenticity of the document. After careful examination I can add two points that were not mentioned before and which nurture the doubt: In the document his parents are given as Ferdinand and Marie Bothke, the profession of the father is given as architect, as place of resindency of parents Berlin-Charlottenburg. I checked the Berlin Adressbooks for 1908, the date Paul Bothke began service in the army, 1914 and 1918/19. NO Ferdinand Bothke listed in all of Berlin, let alone Charlottenburg. Also, I checked for Ferdinand B. in a large list of over 23.000 architects active in Germany in the 19th and 20th century NO Ferdinand Bothke. Does not mean the Kriegsstammrollenauszug is faked, but should add doubt. ALSO: A Verwundetenabzeichen in silber (woundbadge in silver) is noted as being awarded to him. However all the hospital stints which are listed are because of Mittelohrentzündung and the like (inflammation of the middle ear) this is not something you got the Verwundetenabzeichen for! More doubt! I checked the loss lists. For getting a woundbadge in silver at least three certified WIA incidents had to occur. There is only one Paul Bothke listed once, and he is from Tilsit, not Arendswalde as given in the document. Almost insurmountable doubt. GreyC

Thanks for the 2nd letter which shows quite well the reality of war and how it was handled. I just hope that both recipents of the different letters did not compare the cause of death. That might have made them doubt the descriptions of the officers. GreyC

The lieutnant´s name is Schnackenberg. GreyC

That is well possible, you´d have to consult the Dienstalterslisten for that period. Maybe a member of the forum has access to them. I don´t, unfortunately. Often the officers were released from the service with one rank below and awarded the next higher one on exit. So you´d have to look for Oberstleutnants as well. GreyC

The Ehrenrangliste has him as Major at the outset of the war and as Oberst a.D. in 1926 with no other units given. GreyC