v.Perlet

hello 1812 Overture, sorry that was a mental lapse off mine ? - my daughter and me call him grandpa, factually he is my Father in law and I am German. If you don't mind I also moved your other photo to this thread. Below in case you wouldn't know you can see what a China Order of Liberation Class 3 awarded for service in Korea, actually looks like including the ribbon-bar. Regards Andreas

Hello 1812 Overture, don't worry your English is just fine. As for JapanX - I don't believe he is angry at you at all - i assume that he was rather hitting on me with sarcasm. Anyway as I mentioned in my first post to you - I don't feel offended at all. especially not if discussions or voicing of different opinions is carried forward in an appropriate manner. The photo you posted on this other thread is actually very interesting, since it is a very, rare photo in my opinion that shows what original commemorative veterans medals looks like - thanks! My grandfather is still going strong with his - 97 - due to his rank and involvement history during the Korean war he also received certain higher war orders. Regards Andreas

???? just look at your own statements !!! ? landsknechte's concern and question was in regards to the missing of a long service medal and not as to what a iron division ribbon, or what the iron Division is about - you did not even catch the question, and you never gave an answer towards that "specific" issue. Over and out

People like you, their specific mentality and argumentative approach are exactly the reason why I stay away from these "other" Forums. If you roam around a Forum that is called Wehrmacht.... and looking at the design of that webpage, I would strongly suggest that you urgently need to familiarize yourself with German terms and expressions. Im Fernen Osten, in the far East Im Osten, in the East - If you don't know that the Baltikum lies in the East - then you got a problem not me. - if you don't know that China is referred to as being im fernen Osten, in the Far East - then again you got a problem not me. Cite: Als Führer des „Freikorps Lüneburg-Volck“ gehört auch der Autor dieses autobiographischen Berichts zu denen, die sich nach Osten aufmachen.Seine Erlebnisschilderung läßt den „Krieg nach dem Krieg“, der 1919 im Baltikum geführt wurde, wieder lebendig werden. https://freikorps.info/?p=143 Regards v.Perlet

Hello 1812 Overture, sorry if my previous post sounds off as a bit of a harsh reply. But sometimes I really get annoyed about constant posting and commenting about obvious fakes. The problem resulting from this, is that the real war awards/orders are not sufficiently researched and known to us in the West. Due to this constant hopping up and down on obvious fakes - the general thought that anything that doesn't look like rubbish must be genuine has taken hold. Which in turn results in collectors paying big $ for very well made FAKES. I do not intend to destroy/hurt someones believe in having payed big $ for a "genuine" medal/order - but sadly having purchased exactly such fakes - selling for US$1000 -10,000 in both China and the West. So I will refrain from contacting or showing e.g. a Forum member what a "real" war Order looks like and how to recognize it. But I will try to forward my opinion or concern in regards to those who post PRC war medals/orders that they intend to purchase and as such trying to point out the details that unmask a high quality, big $, fake. - due to my contacts and research I have knowledge about certain medals/awards - which however does presently not encompass every single war award or commemorative veterans award. And try to keep in mind that just because a big$ fake comes in a "genuine" looking medal case has no bearing on the genuineness of the medal/order it beholds. faking a case or box is about the easiest thing one can do in this "Trade of Fakes". Also one needs to be aware that persons that make/forge war-awards "exactly" as a genuine award - face serious reprisals by the Chinese government, then those who "imitate the looks" of medals/awards. (I assure you, that one doesn't want to get caught faking anything in China that is government supervised or military related - especially not since Xi Jinping came to power). So do not think of Mainland China being the prime source or manufacturer of "genuine looking" high-class fakes. - just my 5 cents. Regards v.Perlet

??? - ".......One of many Freikorps, the Iron Division was raised on January 18, 1919 in Wainoden by an experienced German officer Major Josef Bischoff out of remnants of German 8th...... Army, Iron Brigade (Eiserne Brigade) being another Freikorps unit and numerous volunteers. On October 06, 1919 it was absorbed by the West Russian Volunteer Army and disbanded on December 31, 1919. Association of the Iron Division former members was formed on March 01, 1920."........ So it was a Freikorps unit that this person joint after November 1918, thus prolonging his stay in the East, and the Western part of Russia would be to the East of Germany (e.g. Eastern Front) and not to the West - right? Assuming that this person did not travel all the way from e.g. Munich to Western Russia - but already being stationed in the EAST due to being a member of the former German 8th Army - he therefore prolonged his stay in the East - right? And China, or e.g. Thailand were you are supposedly staying is termed the "Far East". or if you want to break it down further, you are staying in South-East-Asia which is a specific geographical part of the Far East. https://antique-photos.com/en/homepage/188-awardsdatabase-en/freikorps-awards/219-iron-division-medal.html#:~:text=Iron Division former military personnel%2C non-combatants who assisted,bought by veterans upon presentation of these certificates. Regards v.Perlet

Hello 1813 Overture there is no need for you or others to send me photos depicting fake medals - especially fake war medals. As I already explained; anything not recorded by the Chinese government and/or Military museums e.g. in Nanjing = and as such also not acknowledged by me, as being an official war medal or Order (Thank God there are not many such medals and Orders) - is a FAKE. Especially those with a rubbish clasp, regardless of interwoven stripes or not is 99,99% fake - read my posts! I know very well what real war awards look like, and again I am into COMMEMORATIVE CIVILIAN medals, and again, NONE of the ones you have posted so far are COMMEMORATIVE CIVILIAN medals - NONE!!! - so obviously you are not aware about the difference between COMMEMORATIVE CIVILIAN - PIN ON - MEDALS and those rubbish medals with rings and rubbish red ribbon clasps on them. One of the fake commemorative WAR medals is displayed on the lower row - left. See my attachment as to what the "real" WAR commemorative medal for VETERANS looks like. In the attachment you can see what an original war award looks like that was handed out and awarded to members of the PLA - NOT - PVA during the Korean war - in this case it is a Korean award handed out to one of the veterans that I am very attached to. Since he is a relative of mine. Now I am waiting for the next wise guy to tell me that it is a fake. - sorry not personally meant towards you. This topic China and the Korean war and what really went on is more or less totally unknown to Westerners. E.g. would you know that Chinese PLA troops fought in North-Korean uniforms? I am talking about knowing/proof and not assuming - as such would you know or recognize the difference between a North Korean shoulder-board and those "Korean shoulder-boards" worn by PLA - troops NOT - PVA soldiers? And as such with what medals those PLA soldiers and those PVA soldiers were awarded with? Those medals are just a tiny part within a mostly totally unknown topic for Westerners. So if you know something that I wouldn't please don't hesitate to tell me and don't waste your time sending me pictures of NON commemorative civilian medals and fake rubbish war or fake and rubbish commemorative veteran medals. Regards v.Perlet

Great - good news Regards v.Perlet

Hello Markd, I don't know exactly what you mean by "twisted braid edging" The yellow piping on your posted Luftwaffe uniform is correct - for a non NCO rank. The "braiding" you might refer to for a NCO such as a Feldwebel looks completely different see photo 1. That for officers has a silver piping see photo 2 Regards v.Perlet

Hello landsknechte, maybe you are already aware - the ribbons for the China Medaille were the same for the combat award in bronze, and silver for civilians or military personal in a supportive role. So "he" could have been anything civilian during the China crisis and 14 years later being called up or volunteered for the Great war and prolonging his stay in the East with a Freikorps unit. In such a case his actual service time in the army would have been just 4 -5 years. Regards v.Perlet

Hello scottplan, I do not have one of my EK casings available at were I presently reside. However any item in reference to an 1870 or 1914 EK known to me, e.g. a wooden-box, a metal casing, a commemorative ribbon, a wallet or stationary set, etc. - depicts an EK more or less very similar to what it actually looks like - something of honor, prestige and value. And most likely not in the shape or appearance (sorry) of a Bundeswehr cross. Please see the attachments in reference to my forwarding Regards v.Perlet

Hello Deutschritter, and Dave Danner, I am not sure as to who might mix up these two Gebsattel brothers (actually there are three from the first wife of Viktor Emil v. Gebsattel) in regards to their photos or data beheld in their vitae’s. Please see the below link. As you know there were six v. Gebsattel’s serving during Willis time in this Regiment – hence Willi jockingly refering to the Regiment as the Gebsattel Regiment. http://www.rothenburg-unterm-hakenkreuz.de/konstantin-von-gebsattels-antisemitismus-im-schutz-und-trutzbund-kleist-zitat-schlagt-sie-tot-das-weltgericht-fragt-euch-nach-den-gruenden-nicht/ Der Adelige Konstantin Wilhelm Hartmann Heinrich Ludwig Freiherr von Gebsattel mit fränkischem Stammsitz in Gebsattel bei Rothenburg wurde 1854 in Würzburg geboren; er starb 1932 in Linz. Er war General und Inspekteur der Kavallerie, und diente im 1870 Krieg. Er war Rittmeister and Esquadron Chef des Ulan Rgt. 1 in 1895-1897. 1910 quittierte Konstantin von Gebsattel seinen Dienst, zuletzt als Generalleutnant Kommandeur der 1. Kavallerie-Brigade in München und Inspekteur der bayerischen Kavallerie His second brother, Hermann von Gebsattel (1855-1939) was Major General of the Kavallerie and founder of the Bird Sanctuary Association of Bavaria. His 3rd and youngest brother Ludwig Hermann Freiherr von Gebsattel was Esquadron Chef of the same Regiment but before him (Konstantin) in 1892-1895. Not 1895-1897 as mentioned in the thread. Also he was promoted to Rittmeister, not Hauptmann on 25.August 1892 and not 19.June 1892 as stated in the thread. He was appointed Major on 28.October 1897 and not on 12. August 1898 as stated in the thread. I am NOT forwarding that my datas collected from various sources would be the correct ones, just saying different sources, different datas regarding Ludwig Hermann von Gebsattel. The Bayerische Landesbibliothek does not provide clear information or photos in regards to this issue. Personally I assume that the other website mixed up the photos – but for the sake of interest, would you have a photo of Konstantin von Gelbsattel showing him as a Lt.General? Since the only one I can find shows him as a Leutnant. Regards Andreas

Haha.. great one - that was my thought too when I saw these carriage mounted MG's -Feldkueche If the below photo isn't staged - someone is going to run into a serious problem too Regards Andreas

Exactly those were my thoughts too Regards v.Perlet

Upss... sorry for that Hello Komtur - you bidding for that Album? Why is everyone here called Andreas?? Regards Andreas

And they were feasting on Salami ? A pre war photo - Potsdam Garde MG Abteilung 1 Regards v.Perlet

I am not so fit on PLM's - but I guess the one on his neck it is one. An officer from the Potsdam Guard MG Abteilung 1 Regards v.Perlet

Thanks chuck, I noticed that almost all offered Wound Badges show all kinds of other materials. Therefore my thought is as to only one of iron would actually be authentic. Regards v.Perlet

Hello Wyomingguy, let me say, I don't really share that thought. In those days - if one wasn't amongst other Veterans or Freikorps units - most likely he would have received some stones or whatever being hurled at him from the Communist and associated organizations. Since he would have openly displayed a symbol attributed in vast majority towards nationalist oriented people. (I am refering to his 'nationalist inspired" veterans association cross - NOT about someone simply wearing an EK on a war-ribbon) Also, being amongst his "spirited nationalist comrades", these people knew exactly what an EK or a war-ribbon looks like. If the respective person would have worn that Veterans Organizations cross on a war ribbon - I think he would have gotten into problems with his own pals, since at that time a real EK with or without a war-ribbon certainly wasn't hard to come by a person who had actually been awarded with one. Just my 5cents? Regards v.Perlet

Hello Deutschritter, now it all makes sense. After you indicated the title "Ritter von Reitzenstein" I finally!!! also realized that his "Coat of Arms" is not that of the Freiherrn von Reitzenstein. Found a far better resolution of his documents and awards BTW his collection that was auctioned of by Hermann Historica 20 years ago was auctioned of by Ratisbon's last year in July. Anyone knows for how much? or what the asking price was? https://www.ratisbons.com/de/43rd-contemporary-history-auction/wilhelm-von-reitzenstein-important-military-order-of-max-joseph-winner-s-grouping.html Thanks for that piece of help - very appreciated Regards v.Perlet

Hello Deutschritter, in order not to derail the thread "PIM" I posted my reply under the MVO/MVK thread. Regards v.Perlet

ja stimmt - den noch obendrauf und Witwen und Waisen Zuschuss? Gruss Andreas

Das ist schon klar, aber z.b. im Falle (Vornamen weis ich nicht mehr) ein Freiherr von Reitzenstein hat einen Max-Joseph-orden erhalten - daher Ritter Freiherr von Reitzenstein. Als Freiherr ist er ja schon im Erbadel - der Ritter muss (je nach Orden) zwischen 2-3 mal innerhalb der Familienfolge verliehen werden um daraus den Erbadel beantragen zu koennen. Was aber in diesem Fall ja keinen Sinn ergibt da dieser Reitzenstein sich ja schon im Erbadel befindet. Also gehts wahrscheinlich um die Muecken die der Orden mit sich bringt - ich glaube das waren beim Max Orden so um die 20,000 Maerker. Habs gefunden - aber zu klein/undeutlich als dass ich Seinen Namen erkennen kann. War vor ca. 20 Jahren bei einer Hermann Historika Auktion. Gruss Andreas

All I have is this - but it's in Danish - Parts of Flensburg at the time were Prussian and Danish, with aristocrats crossing the lines at times as you know. Maybe it can help you. https://biografiskleksikon.lex.dk/F._Schleppegrell Regards v.Perlet

Hello David M, Schlepegrell, Rittmeister v. (note only one p) Schleppegrell, Capitaen v. (note two p) The 2nd chaps data would be: Friderich Adolph v. Schleppegrell, 28.6.1792-26.7.1850 1828 Capitaen und Chef fuer Regiment Jaegerkompagnie Would this be the chap you are looking for? Regards v.Perlet