Les

K., Would you happen to have a good photos to compare "before" and "after" awards side by side, to show how they differ? Thanks, Les

I discovered this thread a little late.... Claudio, thanks for posting the pictures you took. They, and the exhibit are all very interesting. Oberleutnant Cordt von Brandis was awarded the PLM on the 14th March 1916 for the capture of Douamont, although he was not the first officer to arrive take possession of the fort. Brandis was ordered by Hauptmann Haupt (who also received the PlM for his actions that day) to directly report to headquarters that the fort had been captured by German troops. Brandis relayed the information directly to the Kronprinz, who the story goes, handed Brandis his own PlM on hearing the news of the capture. Haupt's "paper group" was for sale about ten or twelve years ago, minus the medal. The family sold the paper items, but reportedly were keeping the medal itself. Whether they still have it or not...I don't know. The one on display might be his, or possibly Brandis' since the traditional histories usually credited him with "taking" the fort, while ignoring NCO Kunze and Lt. Radke's role in the capture of Douamont. If it's possible to get better photos of the medal, it would be greatly appreciated! Also, at the Haus der Geschichte in Stuttgart, there is a "Mythos der Rommel" exhibit running through the end of August this year, with what is said to be the PlM he wore when wounded in 1944, his WWII medals and decorations, and also his FM baton. Has anyone seen this exhibit and/or purchased the catalog? Les

I didn't bid on it, although I was really tempted. The photo a nice one, and if you got it, the price wasn't bad. I thought it would get sniped at the last minute for more than it brought. The profile of the fellow with the goatee/vandyke is a slightly earlier one than the shot of the two men together. In the profile photo, there's no tresse around the shoulder straps, and in the photo of the two men, there is. MvR? I don't think it was. Les

The prop device worn on the greatcoat collar patches is a non-regulation item that is sometimes seen in period photos. Les

By the way, there was also a mask made for horses and even message carrying dogs. I've seen photos of dogs with them, but never one with a horse having a mask on. Anyone have one of those? Les

Christophe, I added a reply to the photo in the original post on the mask. The NCO wearing the "odd" mask, is wearing a pre-war Draeger made mask. Prior to WWI, the firm specialized in developing and selling mine rescue breathing equipment. The standard German infantry mask worn during the war severely limited the ability of men to see very much going on around them. In order to see what was happening to one side, it was necessary to turn the head. Also, the masks made it very difficult to communicate because people found it was almost impossible to communicate with each other clearly. Later in the war, special "buzzer" type sound systems were added to masks meant for NCOs and officers, but these were at best an iffy compromise feature. Some personnel required being able to see clearly while operating equipment such as trains, ambulance wagons, ammunition wagons, etc. There were also other men who needed to be heard clearly (men operating telephone equipment, etc). Some, but not all of them, were issued specialized Draeger masks with separate eye masks, a nose clip, and a separate mouth piece that could be taken out for speaking, and then replaced so the man could take a breath. There were also masks worn by men who could not wear a standard infantry gas mask because of facial deformities, wounds, missing teeth, and other factors that would prevent the mask from providing a good seal against gas. Beards and facial hair by the way, prevent a good seal against gas and is one of the reasons beards seem to be relatively uncommon later in the war among front-line units in the west. Les

The mask in the photo is not an experimental or odd ball type mask. It's actuallly, a special function type mask. These are sometimes seen in photos, but not very often. The Draeger firm made several types of respirator systems for use in mine rescue operations before WWI. Most people are aware of the face masks worn by the German infantry. The masks reduce the ability to see what's happening around the person wearing them, considerably. As a result of that limitation, specialized masks were made and issued to personnel who required being able to see while operating heavy equipment (vehicle drivers for example), or others who needed to be able to speak clearly enough to deliver orders, etc. The typical face mask worn by the infantry either reduced or eliminated the ability to communicate clearly while wearing the mask. (Some of them had buzzer like sound systems in them, but these don't work all that well.) The protective equipment for men operating equipment, telephone sound boards, etc, were usually very similar to what the individual in this photo was wearing: a set of googles, a nose clip and seperate mouth piece. A seperate mouth clip would allow the wearer to take the piece out, speak, then immediately replace it so he could take another breath without being exposed to gas. A seperate category of special masks were worn by men that could not wear a standard gas mask, or specifically, the mask did not fit well enough to prevent gas from going around the mask and into the man's lungs. People with irregular faces might not be protected from gas. Facial wounds, oddly shaped jaws/skulls, missing teeth and so on could contribute to a mask not being able to fit. If that happened, putting a man in a combat situation without a mask would certainly result in him becoming a gas casualty. There are a several books on this subject, and one in French which is particularly good as it shows many of the known masks in period photos. I have it somewhere in my library, and will post the title if I remember to look through my boxes for it. Christophe, thanks for posting that! Les

Second set of photos: The auction closed earlier today, and these sold for US$1500. Les

I contacted the seller about these and got a dose of attitude. Although his listing says "send payment to" he said he wouldn't take any form of payment other than Paypal or something similar. I didn't bother telling him oakleaves worn on some of the ROA's are the same as those worn on PlMs. This pair seems to be earlier than WWI, and probably meant to be worn with an ROA. http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Pour-le-Merit...93%3A1|294%3A50 Photos in two batches for the record:

This is a copy of the life mask Houdon made. Les

Bear, Thanks for showing that item. Not long after Bonaparte took over control of the Republic (and then the Empire), Lafayette got the short end of the stick. He wouldn't leave Europe for the US, and was imprisoned for several years because of his Republican sympathies. For entirely personal reasons, he's become a favorite historical character of mine. In 1824-1825, he made a farewell tour of the United States. That tour generated a huge amount of instant memorabilia which at the time were usually cheaply made souvenirs, but today have become highly collectible items. During the summer of 1825, on the return leg of his trip, his route took him through the area where I live, and he stopped briefly at a local tavern (now my house) "for refreshments" and a change of horses on his carriage. A local newspaper reported this stop-over, and other information about meeting some of the locals, etc. When I discovered that story, I started looking for a copy of his Houdon bust or a decent looking art-quality print of him to hang in the room that was once the tap room of the tavern/house. I couldn't find a bust, and settled for a copy of a Houdon life-mask. Want a photo of the life mask posted here? Les

I've seen helmet covers in photos before, that are usually from the spring or summer of 1918. The most usual helmet "covering" I've seen on German WWI steel helmets, is in an unpublished photo in my possession. I'm reluctant to post it not only because it's unpublished and what happens to images once they appear on-line, but because this is absolute documentation for the use of ......chicken wire on a German WWI steel helmet. This is well-known on WWII helmets, but not for WWI. Chicken wire covered helmets are heavily faked on WWII helmets, and I'm not going to provide direct documentation for the same thing to happen on WWI helmets. I'd consider providing a scanned image to Chris for his records, provided it doesn't go on-line or find it's way into any publications. Les

A friend of mine found a 1918 dated Bank of Scotland "Fiver" in a WWI tunic. Les

Some actor ? ;-)

Bruce, welcome to the forum. I bought your book shortly after it was published and read it. Your comment about writing it differently if done today, (and two kids at University) is a good reason to think about a second edition. (Hint, hint, hint). Chris, as you're obviously aware, the high casualty rates, effects of a long blockade aimed at Germany and Austria-Hungary, food shortages, calling up age classes ahead of their scheduled time periods, and a long list of other factors all played an important part in lowered "k.v." standards not only among the Germans, but the Allied powers as well. "Young and fit" has some advantages that are sometimes overlooked. "Young and dumb" has a special place in the hierarchy of that might be a notch or two higher than fitness alone. Older, married men are sometimes prone to think first and be a little slower to do something rash that could leave a widow and orphan at home. Remember being 18 or maybe 20, wearing a uniform and thinking you'd live forever, and it would be someone else that would get killed? After a while, that way of thinking can change. "Older" men (even those who are still in the early or mid-20's) who have been trained in one way of doing things, and spent a year, two, or longer develop habits in a combat zone (such as automatic reflexes such as ducking or dropping to the ground when hearing specific sounds) or ways of doing things that have to be "unlearned." Recruits (particularly young ones) undergo basic training that all armies use to convert civilians into soldiers that will follow orders, and form part of a team/unit. A new recruit, is much easier to train for "special duties" than one that's been in the army a while. He doesn't have ingrained habits or reflexes that have to be unlearned, and instead is much easier to mold into a candidate for specialized tasks that older, longer service enlisted men. That doesn't mean your cadre isn't made up of experienced men who can and will handle men within a squad or Zug sized formation. Your comment that no special forces type selection course is necessary, is a sound point, and very common sense when you think about how military organizations (even police and similar organizations) "select" and train people. Les

Not worn on a ribbon bar, but an additional award would have been a gold wound badge (loss of a limb) after that award was instituted in 1918.

My father was German from the Pfalz, and my mother an Austrian from the Brenner region. I learned very early listening to my relatives from both sides of the family, that German spoken (and written) in Germany and Austria might be on the same par with American and British English. For the moment, let's not go too far afield with the way Australians, South Africans, those hairy kilt wearers north of the former Hadrian's wall make noises at each other, and the mellifluously clear sounds of Irishmen speaking to each other. ;-) Languages influence cultures, and the way people think and in turn, how they see the world around them. The symbolism and thoughts wrapped up in words can in turn affect relations with neighboring countries that speak different languages, and so on. Bear in mind, that Austria was a nation before Richard III went on the Crusades, and was an Empire for a major part of the modern historical era. During the heyday of the Empire, there were no less than nine official languages that could be used for governmental business, etc. Compare than with the largely "German" state that developed much later, and had many different views on language, culture, nationality, and international views. Two different "Empires" and more than one or two differences, the way they developed, and the way they are seen by "history." Not quite the same, and not standardized. A peach and nectarine might look the same, taste similar to some people, but there is a difference between the two. I suggest a look at the following article for a few of the differences that turn up with regards to cooking/foods, legal terminology, and other areas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_German Les

The Imperial System of weights and measures adopted in the UK circa 1824 and in official use until 1995, and the United States system of weights and measures are not identical, and different enough that the systems are known by different names. There are enough differences (besides the Imperial and US gallons) between the two, that it can be said the United States never used or adopted what is/was known in the UK (or Canada among other places) the Imperial system at all.

A traditional cure for diarrhea in many parts of the world is to chew and eat small lumps of charcoal. Chewing the stuff can be a little messy and you'll want to wash your mouth out afterwards. It work very well, and is cheaper and quicker than running (in all sense of the word) to a doctor or pharmacy. Whatever Chris fed the cat, left small silver/white or greyish looking stains on the material next to it. Chris, any chance of a better image of the lettering or label on the wrapping? "Ag" is the chemical symbol for "Argentum" or silver. Googling "Agn" provided the following from one of the sites it brought up: Synonyms: 12553-68-3, 15046-91-0, 47Ag, 7440-22-4, 87354-45-8, 87370-84-1, Ag, Ag(0), Ag+, Agn, AIDS-334784, AIDS334784, Algaedyn, Amalgum, Argentum, Astroflake 5, C.I. 77820, C06710, Carey Lea silver, Caswell No. 735, CHEBI:30512, CHEBI:9141, CI 77820, Colloidal silver, D 25 (metal), Degussa 67, Degussa 80, Dotite XA 208, EINECS 231-131-3, EPA Pesticide Chemical Code 072501, Epinall, FA 2 (metal), FA 312, G 12 (metal), Germany: C-Pigment 2, HSDB 5034, Jelcon SH 1, KS (metal), L-3 (element), LA 113, Lead refinery silver bullion, LS 500, Metz 25B, Metz 3000-1, Shell silver, Silber, Silber [German], Silflake 135, Silpowder 130, Silver, Silver atom, Silver metal, Silver nanoparticles, silver(0), Silver(II), Silver, colloidal, Silver, elemental, Silver, metal and soluble compounds, SR 999, TCG 7r Click on image for more info from PubChem click for details Search for: Agn IUPAC Name silver CAS Number 7440-22-4 Chemical Formula Ag Some type of silver compound perhaps? Les

If the cat now looks like this, don't tell your neighbor what you did. Les

(Bumped back up.) I -may- have a chance of (finally) getting this bar.... No details about this until after it happens. Does anyone else have photos (period ones showing the GMVK being worn on a bar, or photos of actual bars with GMVK mounted) of the GMVK worn mounted on a bar? Typically, (regulations specify this) the GMVK is worn with the ribbon worn through a buttonhole of the uniform tunic and the medal hanging from the ribbon. Wearing the GMVK on a bar, and not through the buttonhole suggests this bar was worn on civilian clothing. I've seen more than a few GMVKs in photos showing wear from buttonholes and cased original medals hanging on the ribbon. I've started looking for photos of other GMVKs being worn on a bar in the last few days and so far, haven't found any. Chances are that examples worn on a bar are going to be much rarer than original "ribbon/buttonhole" versions. Anyone have any other photos they can share? Les

The boxed aviation related materials went for ?5100 and the bar with the repeat clasp is almost half that price with a few more days to go. If the person who got the aviation items wants the documents (and bar belonged to the father) he's going to have to pay a hefty amount to keep it all together at this point. He also stands a good chance of not being able to keep both of them together. Pity to see groups split up, but this looks like what's about to happen. Stogie: Non culpa mea est. Les

Amen and hallelujah.

The seller sent additional photos. The images weren't as sharp or detailed as the ones shown on ebay. The details were clear enough to see one of the characteristic die flaws that it should have. The cross-hatching on the breasts of all of the eagles and on both sides, suggests this piece is not wartime, but very likely made shortly after the end of the war. Extensive die wear is clearly evident in the close up photos shown on ebay. This example closely matches the post-war example posted by Tim Tezer on this site, which also had cross-hatching on all of the eagle breasts. Caveat: Cast copies with cross-hatched breasts rather than feathers have surfaced so photos alone are not solid proof a PlM is "good" until actually examined in hand, and with a reasonably good hand lens of at least 10x, preferably better. There is a difference between saying something -looks- good, and -is- good. That is a distinction that should be always remembered. Les

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=170305862789 I've asked for two additional photos from the seller to determine if it's real, or possibly a cast copy of an original. (Cast examples with almost all of the characteristics of a real one have surfaced, so photos alone can be dangerous in drawing conclusions about these blue thingies.) All four of the eagles are cross-hatched. Wartime examples with cross-hatching seem to have one or more of the eagles with this feature, but not on all four eagle breasts. All breasts retouched seems to be a feature of post-war manufactured pieces. Slightly over two years ago, a fellow forum member contacted me about a piece that surfaced in the NE. I was sent some photos of the image, given an estimated price, and told that I might be able to get it if I was interested. That example was not being sold by a "widow" but a married couple, one of them arelative of the man who had it in his collection. A well-known dealer in the NE who "had to have it" went after it with a vengeance and got it. I suspect this may be the very same piece. Les