Dave Danner

Hi, I'm not sure if this is the correct forum to ask, but hopefully someone here might have the answer. A Major d.R., whose Stammwaffe is Infanterie and whose peacetime unit is M.G.Btl. 8, is serving as Adjutant (IIa) of the 21. Panzerdivision. According to his Karteikarte, he is awarded the "Sturmabzeichen" on 10.8.42. Also during his time with the division, he received the 1939 Spangen to the 1914 EK1&2 and the Italian Silver Bravery Medal. Which badge should he get? An Infantry Assault Badge because of his branch, or a General Assault Badge because he is a staff officer, in the rear with the gear? Even though it's a Panzerdivision, I imagine a Panzer badge is out, and it would probably say "Kampfabzeichen" if that were the case anyway. Thanks, Dave

Hi David, Here is the page in question. It is not actually ccclxxxi, that's just another Google screw-up. It is part of a multi-page set of Personalveränderungen, all dated 13 September 1911.

Brilliant! Perfect! Again many thanks. Dave

Hi, I don't have any good biographical references for Navy officers, so I hope someone can help with the exact dates of death of the following: Engel, Richard VAdm.a.D. 27.7.1866-xx.xx.1954 Feldt, Constanz KAdm.a.D. 16.10.1867-xx.xx.1942 Mörsberger, Hermann Kapt.z.S., char.KAdm.a.D. 12.8.1872-xx.xx.1940 Reclam, Victor Kapt.z.S., char.KAdm.a.D. 7.1.1871-xx.xx.1946 Many thanks!

Many thanks! In case you're interested, the entry in question is for one of Baden's lost 900, one of Rick L's projects I am working on finishing up Dietrich, Ernst Adolf Feldzahnarzt, Gruppenzahnstation Isegem [izegem, Westflandern] BZ3bX am 18.6.1918

Hi all, I hope someone can make this out, because I am at a loss. The handwriting itself is legible, but the word - I assume a place name - escapes me. The first part appears to be "Gruppenzahnstation", which sounds odd to me but I suppose that is what they called such places. I don't even know what we'd call such places ("field dental clinic"?). The second part looks like "Isegem" or something like that, but I can't find such a place. I included some extra text above and below so the style of handwriting was clear. Thanks, Dave

Sorry I do not have a better scan, but here is an example of the markings on the ring of a 2nd Class:

In a Kriegsrangliste (officers) or Kriegsstammrolle (enlisted), the left column in your excerpt is the column for "Mitgemachte Gefechte", which is normally column 11, and the right is column 12 for "Orden und Ehrenzeichen", The "Mitgemachte Gefechte" are usually taken from the unit's official combat participation list. The dates are from those lists, with any adjustments to the dates if the individual soldier missed certain battles or engagements due to wounds, illness, schools or the like. If a soldier changed units, the new unit would record his records (I assume usually from his Militärpass, but also he might bring along a Kriegsrangliste/-stammrolle excerpt) in its book and then add their own engagements later. If you stayed in the same unit the whole time, your llst would be the same as the unit's list, so often in a Militärpass you will see a photocopy of the unit list attached rather than all the battles rewritten. This example shows he participated in the Battle of the Frontiers in August 1914 (border protection and border fights in Lorraine, battle of Lorraine, battle of Nancy-Epinal, capture of the Fort de Manonviller), and then went to the Race to the Sea (Somme, Arras, Lille, Ypres, etc.) The award list in the right column is divided into "a. vaterländische" and "b. fremde". In this case, "vaterländische" means Bavarian, and "fremde" includes everything else - Prussian, other German states and non-German awards. A Prussian Kriegsrangliste would have Prussian awards under "a" and non-Prussian under "b". Kriegsranglisten and -stammrollen often mess this up, putting German awards under "a" and non-German under "b", but this one looks correct. This particular excerpt is from a fairly early-war Kriegsrangliste, with entries only though July 1915.

Alexander Paul Robinson was born on 15 February 1895 in Dresden as the son of the Rittergutsbesitzer Henry Robinson in Rinkendorf, Kreis Sorau, and his wife Luise née von Arnoldi. Henry Robinson and Luise von Arnoldi were married in Brighton, England in 1889, so I suppose he was originally English. Henry Robinson died on 14 January 1902 in Meran, Tirol, and the widow lived in Wiesbaden, where her family was from (she was from a Nassau Briefadel family), so that is probably why Alexander ended up in FR 80.

The Colonial Service Medal was not awarded for service in World War I. Soldiers in the colonies received the same service medal as soldiers in the European theater, which was nothing*. After the war, in 1922, the Kolonialabzeichen was created. It was also known as the Elephant Order (Elefantenorden), and was a pinback badge. It did not have the status of an order or decoration under German law, but rather was a commemorative badge. The WIkipedia article here has some more detail. * It was not until 1934 that all World War I veterans received a service medal for the war, when the so-called Hindenburg Cross was created. Of course, that does not count all of the unofficial medals of the Weimar era from veterans' associations. Native soldiers in the Schutzgebiete were eligible for the Krieger-Verdienstmedaille. The medal was awarded initially in 1892 in German East Africa, and in 1893 was expanded to the rest of the Schutzgebiete. It was awarded in two classes, 1st and 2nd, and for each class in Gold and Silver. A large number of awards were made on 4 May 1915 to recognize bravery among native members of the Schutztruppe für Kamerun and Polizeitruppe für Kamerun, and a large number of awards were made on 2 September 1916 to recognize bravery among native members of the Schutztruppe für Deutsch-Ostafrika. There were no awards of the 1st Class in Gold that I know of during the war, but there were a few of the 1st Class in Silver, several dozen of the 2nd Class in Gold, and several hundred of the 2nd Class in Silver. A few soldiers received multiple awards. The most decorated was Betschausch (Sergeant) Alfani of the Schutztruppe für Deutsch-Ostafrika. He received the 1st Class in Silver and the 2nd Class in Gold. I think he may also have previously received the 2nd Class in Silver in 1906 as a Schausch (Unteroffizier), but I can't be certain it was the same Alfani. As an aside, while elsewhere native soldiers and police had German rank titles, in East Africa the Schutztruppe used Swahili titles. These Swahili terms were Arabic loan words and most ultimately were derived from Ottoman ranks. So Schausch has the same origin as the modern Turkish Armed Forces rank of Çavuş. Regards, Dave

I can't tell from the photo, but if it's a Saxon Landwehr-Dienstauszeichnung 2.Klasse, that would fit for a reserve officer. Or he was an active NCO, as Beau Newman suggests, and later commissioned. The lack of any Saxon awards would seem to indicate that he was a.D. before 1914 and was recalled into Prussian, rather than Saxon service. A Centenary Medal would indicate he was on active duty in 1897. Saxons who got the Centenary Medal were normally either from regiments stationed in Alsace-Lorraine (IR 105 and FußAR 12), or were commanded to Prussian units or schools at the time. With Oldenburg and Hamburg, maybe a navy connection. He might have been a native of Saxe-Weimar.

A few states, notably the Duchy of Braunschweig and the two Schwarzburg principalities, normally required a soldier to have the Iron Cross in order to get their state award. And when Braunschweig added a pinback War Merit Cross 1st Class, that also required award of the Iron Cross 1st Class.* But many other states awarded their own decoration even if the soldier did not have the Iron Cross. Although having earned the Iron Cross was often a good reason - sometimes the only reason given - for awarding the state decoration. Bavaria and Saxony, having separate armies from Prussia, naturally awarded theirs based on their own criteria. Other large states like Württemberg, Baden and Hessen-Darmstadt also did not require the EK. From rolls and award files I have seen, Anhalt and Lippe-Detmold also did likewise. I do not know for certain about the others. I have a medal bar with the Reuss Silver Merit Medal with Swords and no EK2, so one or both Reuss principalities may be added. I do know that Oldenburg and Mecklenburg-Schwerin awarded their 1st Class crosses to people who did not have the EK1, but I don't know if the same also applied to the 2nd Class crosses. Probably, but I cannot say for certain. Has anyone seen medal groups with the Friedrich August Cross or Mecklenburg Military Merit Cross but no EK2? One thing I have noted, especially in the Anhalt files and especially early in the war: often, the proposal will say he was put in for the Iron Cross, but it was not (yet) approved. And often the proposal will say he was considered for the EK2, but the unit only was allowed a limited number of EKs to award. For example, a Vorschlag might read "zum Eisernen Kreuz vorgeschlagen, infolge der beschränkten Verleihung bisher nicht berücksichtigt". So if a unit had a quota of Iron Crosses, maybe a commander would put in some guys for the EK and others for a state award, rather than having some guys with two awards and others with none. As the war went on, and the EK became far more common, that was probably less of an issue. _________ * The only exception I have seen was for a chaplain, who was proposed for the BrK1 even though he had no EK1. The proposal specifically noted that as a chaplain he was not likely to get the EK1, but because he repeatedly exposed himself to enemy fire to care for his troops, his commander thought he deserved another award. The award was approved.

The Vorschlagslisten are fairly standard forms, used by different states with slight modifications. The templates were published in the Armee-Verordnungsblatt along with the decrees establishing the awards. Sometimes a list will have only one name, while others can run for dozens of pages. Below is a set of recommendations for the Friedrichkreuz from Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 66. In this case, all had the Iron Cross, although the severe wounding of two was also noted. The ones who were turned down were Anhaltiners by birth, but had apparently moved away from the Duchy to towns in Prussian Saxony.

Also, in case you are interested, since the column for his unit has just "desgl.", he was in Husaren-Regiment Nr, 12. The columns are: - Name - Rank / Civilian occupation - Unit - Whether in possession of the Iron Cross - Date and place of birth / Residence / Citizenship - Reason for the award Below is another set of recommendations for soldiers in Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 4. In the case of the one who already had the Iron Cross, no extra reason is given, which was often the case. For the other three, the citation is for their brave conduct which led to their being severely wounded. One was shot in the leg, hitting the bone, one was shot in the belly, and one was shot in the chest

Several states awarded their individual bravery awards to wounded soldiers, although not for being wounded per se and certainly not automatically. Many states did not award their own decoration unless the soldier had already earned or been proposed for the Iron Cross. But they often made exceptions, and one was if you had conducted yourself well in the field, but had been wounded before you could be nominated for the Iron Cross. Here is an example, a recommendation for the Anhalt Friedrich Cross to Lt.d.R. Erich Metzger:

I don't think that is the Academic Palms, but rather the Ordre de la Santé publique. I would think an order would rank higher, but maybe he put military awards ahead of all civil awards.

I have four HOH3X recipients, but I am missing one Lt.d.R. recipient, which is probably the one named Ernst. My notes are all in German since the sources are as well, but hopefully that won't be a problem. There are some dates missing for some promotions I can't find. Chris's guy, a Hptm.a.D., is apparently not in Geile's book, so I suppose another one of the missing November 1918 awards that were not gazetted because of the fall of the monarchy. Schwerdtfeger, Wulf Conrad Wilhelm *10.5.1874 in Wensin, Kr. Segeberg, †17.3.1932 in Wiesbaden - ?? aus d. Hauptkadettenanstalt als Sek.Lt. i.d. FAR 5 eingetreten (Pat. v. 17.5.92), 1899 Abschied bewilligt. - ab 1899 Maler und Modezeichner in Berlin, Paris, Schlesien, München, Murnau und zuletzt Wiesbaden - ab Mobilmachung i.d. RFAR 44 eingezogen, leicht verwundet 1914 als Bttr.Offz., 6./RFAR 44, 5.11.14 OLt.a.D., 13.3.16 Hptm.a.D., z.Zt. bei der II.Ers./FAR 39 - verheiratet 14.4.1910 in Berlin mit Friederike Charlotte (Lotte) Ziegler (*8.8.1876 in Berlin, †15.9.1934 in Niederbarnim), 1914 geschieden, kinderlos. - HOH3X, EK1&2, HH Schwerdtfeger, Harald Ernst *2.6.1888 in Wensin, Kr. Segeberg, Bruder des vorigen - Graphiker und Presse-Zeichner in Berlin - 1910-10 Einj.-Freiw. im IR 114 - im Felde mit RIR 93, leicht verwundet 1916 als Uffz., ?? Lt.d.R., zuletzt Rgts.-Adj. - HOH3X, EK1&2, VAw Schwerdtfeger, Wilhelm Georg Richard *3.12.1879 in Löhrstorf bei Oldenburg in Holstein - 1907 Dipl.-Ing., 1919 Baurat, um 1936 Baurat der Behörde für Technik und Arbeit, Strom- und Hafenbau in Hamburg - 1901-02 Einj.Freiw. im FAR 30, 22.3.07 Lt.d.R., ins Feld mit Rgt., 27.1.15 OLt.d.R., ?? Hptm.d.R. - HOH3X, EK1&2, LD2, BZ3bX, HH Schwerdtfeger, Richard Ernst Hermann Wilhelm *5.1.1885 in Rönhof bei Sonderburg auf Alsen - 10.3.04 Fähnrich, IR 65, 18.8.05 Lt., 5.8.14 OLt., 18.8.15 Hptm., 9.18-x.19 in engl. Gefangenschaft, 1920 Char. Maj.a.D. - 1926-34 Gutspächter auf Gut Gerstin in Vorpommern - um 1936 wohnhaft als Maj.a.D. in Stralsund - HOH3X, EK1&2 Quellen: Militär-Wochenblatt, Deutsches Geschlechterbuch, Verlustlisten Regarding Ernst, there were at least three that I know of, although one was taken prisoner in 1914 and sat out the rest of the war. I would guess the late-war Ernst was the Lt.d.R. Ernst Schwerdtfeger from JRzP 11, killed in action on 8.11.18 as an aviator with Flgr.Abt. A 252, but that's only because of the aviator connection. Regards, Dave

The document is in the recipient's SS Personalakte. That is why I only have is this image of the microfilm copy of SS files in the US National Archives. So it definitely existed. It is odd that we can't find any information though.

What exactly does this refer to? It appears to be an individual decoration, not the familiar swastika brassard. Thanks,

"Abteilung" is a bit of a giveaway. Other orders used "1.Klasse"/"2.Klasse", but the Order of the White Falcon used "1.Abteilung"/"2.Abteilung", None of the Stübgens in the Verlustlisten are your guy, so no luck for you there (though I suppose good luck for Stübgen) Stübgen was commissioned a Leutnant der Reserve in Jäger-Regiment zu Pferde Nr. 6 on 26 February 1915 and was transferred to the reserve of Husaren-Regiment Nr. 12 on 8 May 1915.

To get to the source code, you place the cursor somewhere on the page and right click on your mouse. It is "view page source" in Chrome and Firefox, or "view source" in IE. The address for the entire page is your 1250929. The address for just the image is a little ways down in the code: <div class="body"> <a href="http://files.genealogy.net/verlustlisten/04221.jpeg" rel="drag-mode:true; zoom-width: 600; zoom-height: 200; x: 60; y: 115" class="MagicZoom"> <img src="/page/thumbnailImage/4221?width=400&fitToWidth=true" width="400" height="567.1957670344"/> </a> It is '> The format is - files.genealogy.net/verlustlisten/xxxxx.jpeg - where "xxxxx" is the original page number of the Verlustliste, preceded by zeroes if necessary to make it five digits. Sometimes it is "jpg" rather than "jpeg". Here is the first page of the first list, for example: '> Tony, The rest of the trip was good, up until I broke my arm on the side of a mountain in the Harz. Put into a cast in the hospital in Quedlinburg, and then a new cast when I got to the Veterans' Hospital in Washington DC. So my last week wasn't very productive, and typing and writing are still pretty painful. Dave

This is one of the annoyances with these Verlustlisten, along with the failure to include the ranks, but it's hard to complain when what they have provided is so great a resource. Not being a registered user who can log in like Gunnar, I have to go to "View source" and get the address of the page, as Jonas did, and then change the number.

Maybe. But there are a bunch of categories of Beamten besides Intendantur- ones who are not there. The Kriegsranglisten on Ancestry for the 6.Armee and Heeresgruppe Kronprinz Rupprecht might also be a place to look, since there were so many Prussians serving there.

Veterinarians received the Military Merit Order/Cross on the statute ribbon. A Zahlmeister or similar might fit, in which case you might be looking for a Military Merit Cross 1st Class with Swords on the ribbon for War Merit (BMV5aXB). Are those gilt swords? The Red Eagle ribbon could be for the RAO Medal or the General Honor Decoration, rather than the order. Other categories of Beamten who received the BMV5aXB include Inspektoren (e.g., Lazarett-Inspektor), Sekretäre (e.g. Intendantur-Sekretäre), Oberapotheker, Topographer, Trigonometer, etc. Unlikely to be a Bavarian, due to the lack of a 1905 Jubilee Medal or 1911 Prinz-Regent Luitpold Medal on the Jubilee Medal ribbon. The Austrian ribbon might be the Franz Josef Order or the Golden Merit Cross. He would then have been called back into service as a Wehrmachtbeamter. He wouldn't have served straight through, as he would have 40-year oakleaves in that case.

It is probably "incorrect" no matter what because there is almost no scenario where one could properly wear three MVO/MVK ribbons with swords, especially without a China/SWA/Kolonial-Denkmünze. But many veterans broke that rule. There are photos of a Wehrmacht general, whose name escapes me, wearing both his 4th Class with Swords and 4th Class with Crown and Swords, both awarded in World War I. I do not think it is a pure NCO's ribbon bar, mainly due to the lack of a long service. More likely, he was a Kriegsfreiwilliger or the like, and received the MVK 3rd Class early in the war. Commissioned early- to mid-war, he then received the 4th Class with Swords as a Leutnant der Reserve. Both of these could be worn together under Bavarian regulations. Then, late in the war for repeated acts of bravery, he received the Crown to the 4th Class, and chose to wear it as well, rather than in place of the 4th Class as regulations provided. An example of all three is Leutn.d.R. Bernhard Köhler, *30.12.1882 in Greiz. MVK3X on 9.1.16, MVO4X on 28.6.16, MVO4XKr on 6.12.18. No Bravery Medal, though. Another close match is Franz Solbrig, Leutn.d.R. d. Fliegertruppe, *10.9.1896 in Hammerunterwiesen. MVK3XKr on 21.5.16, MVO4X on 18.9.18, MVO4XKr on 26.11.18, silb. Tapferkeitsmedaille on 25.6.19. So the same as the ribbon bar, except for the lack of a crown on the 3rd Class.