Dave Danner

Despite the thread title, which isn't JPL's but is from the linked article, the basic question is not whether he stopped being a hero when he did something infamous later. The issue is whether he ever was a "hero". The Navy's statement is that after review if found that his award was not justified in the first place. It is speculation by various parties that the Navy is lying. I can speculate just as easily, given that the award came over 20 years after the fact and given the recipient's connections to an ambitious politician, that the Navy is telling the truth and the award was wrongly given in the first place. My own speculation, which is just that, is that the reason the Navy revoked the award but is also reluctant to talk about why, is that it might be embarrassing for Senator Kerry. He may have exerted undue influence on Navy authorities to make the retroactive award to his former colleague and political supporter, influence that he now regrets. Also, for what it is worth, I do not believe it is U.S. government policy to revoke decorations actually earned because of later transgressions by the recipient. As far as I know, Randy "Duke" Cunningham still has his Navy Cross and two Silver Stars despite his conviction for bribery and tax evasion. And former Army Spec. John Stebbins still has his Silver Star from Somalia despite his court-martial conviction for sexually assaulting his daughter.

Hi! Very nice picture. None of the St. Henry, the Ernestine House Order, or the Hanseatic Cross appear in my sources for wartime awards to colonial forces. I would guess that like the 1920-awarded St. Henry, the Ernestine and the Hanseatic Cross were awarded post-war for his actions in 1914. Also, he wasn't promoted to Hauptmann until 1919, retroactive to 1916, and he was already a POW by that time, so the Ernestine may likely be a Knight 2nd Class for actions when he was still a Leutnant. Some additional information: Karl Erich Loßnitzer, born in Riesa i. S. on 4. Aug. 1886. Became "von Loßnitzer" when his father, Johannes Claudius Ludwig Loßnitzer (9.5.1848-14.7.1925), was elevated to the Saxe-Coburg & Gotha Adelstand on 19 July 1915 (the Kingdom of Saxony recognized the SCG Adelstand on 4 August 1915). OLt.: 24.12.14 Hptm.: 28.5.19 mit Patent vom 5.10.16 Maj. (E): 1.8.35 OTL: ? (1939-40 or so) His father was an Saxon Oberst z.D. and was Direktor der hzgl. Sammlungen auf der Veste Coburg (it is a nice collection; if you are ever near Coburg I suggest a visit). The father commanded the Landsturm-Fußartillerie-Bataillon XII. (K.S.) Armeekorps and then Landsturm-Fußartillerie-Regiment XII.A.K. He had the 1870 EK2 and 1870 Albert Order Knights' Cross with Swords (before the split into two classes) and received the Albert Order Officer's Cross on 11 Jan. 1916. Erich had three brothers and a sister. Dr. phil. Friedrich Alfred Max (8.11.1897-8.9.1914) was killled by Somme-Py as a Lt.d.R. in SchR 108. Johannes (13.2.1889-5/6.8.1918) was killed in action as a Kaplt. and Luftschiffkommandant. Wilhelm Otto Helmut (10.3.1898-?) was a Saxon Lt.d.R. in an RIR. Elisabeth Marianne (4.5.1893-?) was married in 1917 to Hptm. Kurt von Gilsa of IR 32. Regards, Dave

They appear to be Uzbek wings. Also, not a major, but Brig. Gen. Steven Duff, deputy commander, U.S. Army Special Forces Command (Airborne).

Given the crown and that they are older French-style shoulder boards, I would guess Morocco.

The NCO two rows behind the Grand Duke is probably Feldwebelleutnant Wilhelm Strobel. He received the Merit Cross of the Order of the Zähringen Lion on the ribbon of the Karl Friedrich Military Merit Order on 20.7.1916. Oberlt.d.L.a.D. Eduard Erxleben and Lt.d.L. Kurt Wibel received their Zähringen Lion Knight's Cross 2nd Class with Swords on the same date. They are probably this guy and the guy behind him: The two officers to the Grand Duke's right (our left) with the Knight's Cross 2nd Class with Oakleaves and Swords are probably Hauptmann Hermann Koch and Hauptmann d.L. Franz Walter. The officer over the Grand Duke's left shoulder with the cigar may be Hauptmann d.L. Friedrich Krank, who received the Knight's Cross 1st Class with Swords on 17.2.1916. However, the medal bar shows a peacetime Zähringen Lion to go with his Baden Jubilee Medal and LD2, which doesn't show up in the 1914 ranklist. Krank was a Notar in the Amtsgericht Kehl II, Landgerichtsbezirk Offenburg, so he might have gotten the peacetime award sometime in 1914.

The two Generals von der Heyde were third cousins: ┌─Paul Heinrich Sigismund Adrian (1862-1946) ┌─Paul Heinrich Sigismund August (1836-1910) ┌─Friedrich Wilhelm (1798-1864) Johann Daniel von der Heyde (1750-1808) └─Detlaw Gustav Friedrich Wilhelm (1785-1863) └─Friedrich Heinrich Sigismund (1816-1900) └─Hermann Heinrich Sigismund (1857-1942) Regards

6. Landsturm-Inf.-Btl. Heidelberg XIV/37 was assigned to the 10. Armee on the Eastern Front. Second from right, next to Gen. Dürr, is an officer with Bavarian general's Kragenspiegel. This would appear to be Generalmajor z.D. Karl Schupbaum. He was Inspekteur des Militär-Bezirks III, Etappen-Inspektion 10. His headquarters was in ... you guessed it ... Suwalki. Next to him, and between him and Feill, appears to be Generalmajor z.D. Georg Heer. He was Inspekteur d. Militär-Bezirks I, Wilna.

The officer to the Grand Duke's left and the viewer's right is Oberstleutnant a.D. Heinrich Feill. He received the Order of Berthold I, Knight with Swords, on 17 Feb. 1916 as commander of 6. Landsturm-Inf.-Btl. Heidelberg XIV/37. The officer at the far right with the Adjutant's badge and Berthold commander's cross around his neck is Gen.d.Inf. Carl Dürr, Generaladjutant S.K.H. des Großherzogs. He kind of looks like Scotty from Star Trek.

It says "Großherzog von Baden in Suwalki 26.7/16. ________________________ mit den Offizieren der Landsturmbat. Heidelberg" Can't make out the one word.

It is clearly something someone put together recently. The ribbons, the mounting, the precedence are all wrong, and the combination is questionable at best: a soldier no higher than Gefreiter with decorations from 5 different states. I would value it at no more than the total of the individual medals, which at least appear OK.

Probably not a native. Quite a few non-Bavarians served in the Bavarian Army. Among other scenarios, often a Prussian college student at Munich, Erlangen or Würzburg Universities would end up doing his military service in the Bavarian Army. If he was in the right unit in 1897, he would have gotten the Centenary Medal. If he stayed in as a reserve officer, he could have gotten the Jubilee Medal in 1905 and a Landwehr-Dienstauszeichnung. But by 1914 he is out of Bavarian service and back in some job in Prussia - junior civil servant or war industry, for example. He is not recalled to active Bavarian service, so no wartime military decorations, but his civilian or civil service position merits the Merit Cross for War Aid. For the third ribbon bar, I would guess a civil servant around the Rat level - Rechnungsrat, Baurat, Bergrat, etc. A PrVfK/RAO4/LD2 combination is not uncommon for these, and he would be old enough to have lost a son in the war. That's assuming it is a Red Eagle; I am getting more color-blind and sometimes can't tell a Red Eagle from an Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen. Regards

The first name is Bruno, so you likely have a German or Austrian recipient, but I can't make out the last. The first two letters are "Tu-" or "To-", and the last letter is an "r", but the middle combo throws me. The last part is an "h", which also can stand for an "e" or short "a", but the loop on the front may or may not be an "m". That could give you "To__er" or "Tu__er". Maybe Tummer. If there were another "r" after the "T", it might have been Oberst z.D. Bruno Trommer-Pasha, who served with the German Military Mission in Turkey. Maybe a misspelling?

The officer on the left appears to be a Teniente General (Lt. Gen.) of the Spanish Air Force, so I'd go with Owain's suggestion. Regards

RIR 93 is another example of confusing relations with parent regiments. RIR 93 was garrisoned in Magdeburg but had nothing to do with nearby Anhalt's IR 93. RIR 93 was, as you great-uncle's experience shows, a Guard unit. It was raised in Berlin by the 4. Garde-Regt. zu Fuß.

I don't know if Joe ever got an answer to this question, but just in case not: LIR 87 was mobilized with 4 battalions. The regimental staff and the I., II., and III. Btle. were raised in Mainz, and the IV. Btl. in Worms. There's your Hesse connection. The regimental staff was dissolved on 7 February 1915. II/LIR 87 and III/LIR 87 with the attached IV/LIR 76, a Mecklenburg battalion from Rostock, were assigned to 6.Armee in December 1914. This only lasted a few months, and in March 1915, II/LIR 87 became III/RIR 17 (RIR 17 was originally a two-battalion regiment from the Rheinprovinz) and III/LIR 87 became III/RIR 30. IV/LIR 76 became III/RIR 69 in summer 1915. RIRs 17, 30 and 69 were all from the Rhineland, so it is likely that by this point, the original LIR 87 and LIR 76 battalions had lost most of their Hessians and Mecklenburgers and the replacements were from the more populous Rhineland. The other two LIR 87 battalions, I/LIR 87 and IV/LIR 87, with the attached V/LIR 76 from Wismar in Mecklenburg-Schwerin, remained with Generalgouvernement Belgien and became Regiment Moß in early 1915. This was redesignated as the "new" LIR 87 in May 1915. I.Btl. remained the same, V/LIR 76 became the II.Btl., and IV/LIR 87 became the III.Btl. So "new" LIR 87 had two Hessian battalions and one Mecklenburg battalion. Also, regarding the 2xx-series RIRs, RIRs 201, 202, 203 and 204 were all raised from Prussian Guard regiments. As Glenn stated, RIR 202 was formed from the Ersatz battalions of GGR 1, GGR 2, and GGR 4 RIR 201 was formed from the Ersatz battalions of 2.GRzF, 4.GRzF, and the GFüsR RIR 203 was formed from the Ersatz battalions of 5.GRzF, GGR 5, and GGR 3 RIR 204 was formed from the Ersatz battalions of 1.GRzF, 3.GRzF, and the LehrIR I don't know if this makes things more or less confusing. :rolleyes:

The Bavarian military records on Ancestry.com or Ancestry.de It is a subscription service.

Karl von Reck, born 19 February 1864 in München. He commanded the 20.bay.IR until 31 July 1916. He then commanded the 8.bay.Inf.Brig. until 29 Sept. 1917. After that, he commanded the 39.Reserve-Division until demobilization on 9 December 1918. He was promoted Oberst on 25 Oct. 1913 and Generalmajor on 17 January 1917. He was characterized as a Generalleutnant on 2 August 1920. The medal bar is: 1. Bavarian Military Merit Order 4th Class with Crown (pre-war award) 2. Prussian Iron Cross 2nd Class (13.09.1914) 3. Anhalt Friedrich Cross (14.08.1915) 4. Bavarian 1905 Jubilee Medal for the Bavarian Army (pre-war award) 5. Anhalt Order of Albert the Bear, Knight 1st Class (pre-war award) 6. Princely Hohenzollern Honor Cross 2nd Class (pre-war award) 7. Prussian Order of the Red Eagle 4th Class (pre-war award) 8. Bavarian Long Service Cross for Officers (1st or 2nd Class depending on when the photo was taken; BDA1 on 02.05.1918) 9. Japanese Order of the Rising Sun (the Germans called it a Knight 1st Class, but I think the Japanese would call it a 5th Class) (pre-war award) v. Reck also received the Military Merit Order 2nd Class with Swords and Star with Swords (the 2nd Class is around the neck), the Iron Cross 1st Class, and the Wound Badge in Black. He also received the Military Merit Order 3rd Class with Crown and Swords and the Military Merit Order Officer's Cross with Swords, but these were replaced by the 2nd Class (the 4th Class stayed on the medal bar because it was pre-war).

- His name is on the picture postcard. - The SH3/SA3aX Albrecht Tasche appears to be the only Hauptmann Tasche in the Saxon Army - According to his entry in the Prussian Court and State Handbook, Tasche did have Saxon and Lippe decorations, although the entries there are messed up (they have "LMVK", which is not the abbreviation for an award in the index; it should be LKEK or LKVK; they also don't show the SH3 and the SA3a is missing a "[m.Schw.]", but messed-up non-Prussian awards are typical in the Prussian handbook) - Tasche received his SH3 on 21.3.15 and the SA3aX a year later, on 25.1.16. The picture may have been taken between those two dates, perhaps when he received the LKEK. Not a perfect answer, but my best guess based on the available information.

Dr. Albrecht Tasche was a Landesversicherungsrat in the Rheinische Provinzialfeuerversicherungsanstalt in Düsseldorf. He was commissioned a Sekondelieutenant der Reserve in Saxon IR 107 on 16 November 1898. He was promoted Oberleutnant der Reserve on 24 June 1907 and Hauptmann der Reserve on 22 May 1913. He wasn't an officer in 1897, so I'm not sure that is a Centenary Medal. Dr. Georg Tasche, who I assume was his brother, was commissioned a Leutnant der Reserve in IR 107 on 27 July 1900. He is not even in the list of Inaktive Offiziere in the 1914 Saxon rank list, so he must have died or completely left Saxon service. Regards, Dave

The ribbons don't go with the medals. The first medal is a civilian shooting medal, as Naxos says, and the last is a Saxon Friedrich-August Medal. No idea on the middle one, but it also appears to be something unofficial. The first ribbon I'm not sure about. The second is for the Bavarian Feuerwehr Dienstauszeichnung, and the third is for the Kaiser Wilhelm I Centenary Medal.

Regarding the guy who started the thread (Schmalberger, not Boonzaier): Johann Schmalberger was in the 1. Komp., I. Btl., 1. Jäger-Regiment geb. 24.12.1899 in Kleinkötz Son of Bauer Michael Schmalberger u. Amalie, geb. Fritz [i hope she didn't have a sex-change!] 2.6.17 als Ldst.Rekr. z. 4./II.Ers/1. Jäg.-Btl. 14.7.17 vereidigt 24.8.17 z. 3./II.Ers/1. Jäg.-Btl. 26.9.17 z. 1./II.Ers/1. Jäg.-Btl. 15.11.17 z. 1./I.Ers/1. Jäg.-Btl. 6.12.17 z. 5./I.Ers/1. Jäg.-Btl. 19.2.18 z. Feld-Rekr.-Dep. Alpenkorps 21.2.-24.5.18 Stellungskämpfe in Lothringen 14.6.18 eingetr., zum I./1. Jäg.-Regt. versetzt 11.9.18 i. Inf.-Gefecht durch Granatgeschoss verwundet 13.9.18 im bay. Feldlaz. 44 gestorben 14.9.18 auf dem Heldenfriedhof Malicourt, Grab 165, beerdigt Probably because he was killed, the record-keeper didn't bother to update Schmalberger's "mitgemachte Gefechte" to include his time in the regiment, but presumably it was where his company was at the time. The intro to the Kriegsstammrolle says "8.8.18-25.9.18 Abwehrschl. a. d. S." [somme?]. Also, call me ignorant of the basic stuff, but how did recruit training work in this period? He appears to have entered service in June 1917 and spent over two months in the 4th Company of the 2nd Replacement Battalion, then one month in the 3rd Company, then almost two months in the 1st Company. I assume that was basic and advanced infantry training, but three years into a costly war, even that seems like a long time. Then he goes over to the 1st Replacement Battalion, spending a few weeks in the 1st Company and three more months in the 5th Company. I would guess that was unit-level training, to integrate the new soldiers together and practice section, platoon, and company operations. Then it's off to the Field Recruit Depot for another four months? I assume the credit for "Stellungskämpfe in Lothringen" means the Field Recruit Depot put the new soldiers in the line in a quieter sector to season them before sending them on to their front-line unit? So basically it was a full year from enlistment to his actual unit? Oh yeah, they finally added the Jäger records. :beer:

I am not an Oldenburg expert, or an expert on manufacturing styles of any state. I did write an article a few years ago on the different styles of swords on German decorations, but that has disappeared into the ether with the rest of my web pages. I still hope to rebuild that soon. I haven't seen any other Oldenburg decorations with the Roman-style hilts you show. From what I have seen, the floral style, which I refer to as "Baroque", is most common. For Oldenburg, this usually has a specific form. The quillons (the parts of the cross-guard that stick out, making it a cross) are in the form of flowers, while the center of the cross-guard is box-shaped, and has a cross within it. Below is a cross from eMedals.ca, along with some other examples of Oldenburg hilts. The two hilts on the top right and top left are from honor crosses like yours, while the other two on the left side are from knight's crosses. This style seems unique to Oldenburg, although neighboring Hannover appears to have had a similar style. The Hannoverian example here is more elaborate, but it is also for a higher-grade order: The "Baroque"-style seen on Baden decorations has flowers in the center of the cross-guard. The Roman style is standard for Prussian decorations. Perhaps Oldenburg crosses with the Roman style hilts were made by Prussian jewelers like Godet, while the Baroque flower style was an Oldenburg court jeweler's version.

A little late, but better late than never. The recipient of the Belgian Order of Leopold Grand Cross was not Heinrich. It was Joseph Anton Emil (20.02.1835-07.10.1911). At the time, he was a Kgl. bay. Gen.d.Kav. and commanding general of the II. Armeekorps. Later, he was promoted to Kgl. bay. Gen.Oberst.d.Kav.z.D., à la suite 2. Schw. Reiter-Regt., à la suite 4. Chevaulegers-Regt. Heinrich was his younger brother, Heinrich Arnold (19.02.1840-23.03.1905). He was a Kgl. bay. Gen.d.Inf., à la suite 5. Inf.-Regt., who was commanding general of the III. Armeekorps at the same time. There were five brothers: 1. Georg Otto (18.05.1823-09.02.1903), only a Hauptmann in Bavarian military service, but father to Oskar (16.01.1856-22.5.1940), the World War I general (and grandfather to Oskar's two sons, both officers in the 1. bay. Inf.-Regt.). 2. Georg Robert (24.08.1830-28.10.1905), Kgl. bay. Gen.Lt.z.D. No children. 3. Hermann Anton Oskar (27.05.1832-28.06.1916), Kgl. bay. Oberstlt.a.D. Father of a medical doctor, a Gutspächter, two Prussian officers and three Bavarian officers. His two youngest sons, a Bavarian Hauptmann and a Prussian Hauptmann, were both killed in action. 4. Emil. As Elwyn noted, Emil was the father of Rudolf and grandfather of Wolfdietrich. His other son Egbert was a Bavarian cavalry major. He also had a daughter Vera 5. Heinrich. No sons, but his daughter Therese married a Württemberg officer, Oberst Theodor Freiherr von Schellerer. Regards

Karl Noack born 03.01.1889 24.08.1910 Leutnant mit Patent vom 15.08.1908 16.05.1915 Oberleutnant 13.10.1917 Hauptmann 31.03.1920 ausgeschieden That's all I have. There is a Saxon named Johannes Hünlich, 02.07.1884-22.07.1949, who died in a Communist prison in Bautzen, but I don't know if that's the same person.

A little late, but some additional information: Achill Arthur Hermann Wilhelm Friedrich von Oertzen, was born on 12 June 1872 in Hamburg. He was married on 23 October 1909 to Ilse Karoline Luise Julie Erdmuthe von Kottwitz (7 June 1884). Achill was promoted to Major on 28 November 1914. His MMV2 was gazetted on 8 March 1915, although the actual award date was probably a little earlier. His brother, Max Wilhelm Konrad von Oertzen, was born on 20 November 1877. In 1914 he was a Rittmeister and Adjutant of the 9. Kavallerie-Brigade. He is erroneously listed in Wegner's Stellenbesetzung der deutschen Heere 1915 bis 1939 as having commanded Kürassier-Regiment Nr. 4 at the end of the war. However, that was another Max, Maximilian Eduard Hugo von Oertzen, who in 1914 was a Major and Adjutant of the 3. Kavallerie-Inspektion. Achill's and Max's parents were Hermann Arthur Friedrich von Oertzen (9 Dec 1844 - 8 Mar 1906), a Prussian Major, and Ernestine Wilhelmine Gräfin von und zu Westerholt und Gysenberg (4 Dec 1849 - ?). Achill's nephew, Max's son Max-Friedrich von Oertzen, born 30 Oct 1909, was killed in action as a Hauptmann on 26 September 1942 near Voronezh. Max had another son, Joachim Ernst, born 23 June 1913, but I don't have any information on him. If Achill had any children, they were born after 1920. As Colin suspected, Achill and Hans-Ulrich von Oertzen were not closely related. Achill was part of the house of Bagentz. Hans-Ulrich was from the house of Teschow. Those two houses' common ancestor would have been back in the 1600s. And finally, Achill's uncle, Arwed Wilhelm von Oertzen (2 Aug 1843 - 3 Feb 1917), was commander of the 28. Division in 1898-1900. He was a Generalleutnant z.D. in 1914, but does not appear to have been recalled to active duty. Regards, Dave