Ed_Haynes

Very very interesting. Compare to the ribbon bar posted by Christed, above, at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=6241&st=4 A relative?

1- Tamgah-i-Pakistan / The Pakistan Medal (the "Independence Medal"), on ribbon for ten-year service medal 2- Tamgah-i-Sad Saala Jashan-i-Wiladat Quaid-i-Azam / Medal for the Centennial of the Quaid-i-Azam [Muhammad Ali Jinnah, 1976] 3- Hijri Medal 1400 [1979 C.E.] 4- Democracy Medal Missing, and a very bad sign that it is missing, is the Tamgha-i-Jamhuria 1375 / Republic Medal, 1956.

#1761, 12 November 1968

The first document I've seen with a "no photo required" stamp? But to a Soviet (?). (Name??)

Here's an interesting documented medal, just unpacked from travels:

Interesting group. Without a Republic Medal, the group smells "made-up" though.

The medal . . . For Brits it was separately struck on the reverse with unique naming for each recipient. For Indians (like this) it was engraved.

I would second Bob's good advice. Be warned, however, that it will soon be hard to find. Out of print, out of stock with the author. And no second edition is to be anticipated anytime soon. You may also want to glance through the various threads here. This is a dangerous medal, the only Mongolian award to have been faked in significant numbers, so take care. I might also suggest you await promotion from "probationary", for posting images. It seems you have them on your (slow) server (in PRC, I assume), rather than on the forum, and this leads to a situation where it takes FOREVER for the images to load, and many viewers simply may not have the patience to wait such a long time.

Yes, a nice one!

When I get back . . .

Jan, This raises the danger of seriously duplication of effort here. While I shall maintain my list for my own information, maybe posting it here will be confusing? Though I think the list posted here is extremely confusing and merges two tasks rather haphazardly.

I was going to update and post a new expanded list when I get back, but I see no reason to reinvent multiple redundant wheels. Shall make my list available, someway, eventually. Many changes will be there.

Precisely!

Until VERY recently, booklets have been retained by the families or otherwise separated. While many that we have seen recently are unissued items from that flood from the state bank, many were issued. Only a more detailed look at the booklets will give us a sense of the issued ranges.

Nice post, many thanks. I always like learning about new things, and South Africa is especially complex, especially with the transition in awards ideology and iconography from apartheid to post-apartheid. It is always interesting to see how such political and social changes are reflected in the awards. Thanks again!

Setting aside the fact that many (most?) Mongolian awards make their way to us with screw-backs that may not the their originals . . . . The same "erased" plate is also seen in the first type of the herder badges and on many other early badges. While I doubt there is any political agenda at work here, it is not an uncommonly observed item. The signficance? I have no clue. As we start to think beyond types and the Battushig "alphabet" (C, D, E, F, etc.) and start to think about the badges generationally (for example, which have what I think of as the "pin and spring" reverse pin?), new sorts of patterns may begin to emerge?

Nice one. Welcome back to Mongolian awards.

As a Muslim, Allah Dad's medals would probably have been issued by Pakistan. I am not sure how they treated WWII KIAs with regard to medal entitlement. Without references, I cannot remember -- all those mental swiss-cheese holes -- which side the 1/16th went, Pakistan or India. If, as I suspect, his WWII medals would have been issued (if they ever were issued) by Pakistan, then they'd be unnamed as all other Pakistani WWII medals were. Unlike India, Pakistan followed British fashion and issued these awards unnamed. Thios opens up tremendous range for the assembly-line faking of Pakistani "groups": take a Pakistan Medal and IGS 36 pair, stuff in unnamed WWII stars (available by the kilo in Rawalpindi), and SHAZAAM a "group"! If I had my copy of Gaylor here, on the road, with me, I'd be able to detail the service and destination of the 1/16th, though that does not guarantee that Allah Dad did all his regiment did. But Michael has already summarised this for you. Also, I should soon be able to check the casualty register, which often gives more details on KIAs. Nice one.

Based on my experience with ROTC -- which turned me against the military forever, except as an object of study -- is that there is NO standardization beyond a few common national awards which are EXTREMELY rare.

Not true! The forum knows better!

Back in August 2005, when this was getting started, I posted on the OMSA site the following and repeat it here:

This has been intensly discussed over on the OMSA site. In addition to the link given above, see: http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=449 http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=447 http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=448 http://www.omsa.org/forums/showthread.php?t=446 And there are other threads there as well.

Getting this mixed up with rants about gun control may not help, at all, and may well be divisive, but this is important, and the phoney flag-wrapped patriots are in full cry on this one. And congressional sheep follow movement. Let me just repeat what I said over on the other thread: The OMSA has taken action. Some. Doubt if it will make much difference. We need a "doorknock" campaign on the hill to counter the well funded phoney patriot-idiots who are happy with a flag-draped police state. No, I don't collect US medals. But I do care INTENSELY. And do remember that others are watching: Canada, Australia, Great Britain, and New Zealand; some there want similar legislation. Russia pretty much has a law banning Soviet/Russian medal collecting already.

ANOTHER addiction, Doc?!

Ah . . . so the addiction lives on, Rick? Yes, a bubble is passing. The massive deluge of unissued specimens from the state bank in Ulanbaatar and the early shake-out from UB-based dealers has passed. In large part, Battushig's book produced that. A good reference in a previously unknown field, coupled with the availability by the kilo -- literally -- of most awards has generated a strange market. It is, I think, stablizing, especially as most Mongolian collecting to date has been not much more than type collecting. As you tick off the types on your checklist, you have the ONE you need and need no more. Likewise, the emergence of large numbers of collectors in Russia (many in out of the mainstream places like Irkutsk) has sucked up most of the supply that comes to market. If/when research becomes possible, and hopes remain high on that front, things will change again. At the very least, we'll probably be able to distinguish between awarded items and surplus flushed from the state bank. Think of this in terms of the history Soviet collecting from the 1970s or 1980s until the present, but with a good reference book already in hand. And then factor in the very small numbers of Mongolian awards, especially as compared to their Soviet cousins. It has been an interesting few months and it will be an even more interesting few years. My 2000 tugriks worth . . .