Tim B

Hi Megan, Interesting, I did not know that. Thank you for the additional clarification here. Tim

Thanks Paul!

Correct me if I'm wrong here as its been sometime looking at French awards but, wasn't the ribbon and small red star already authorized prior to this. Only the medal itself was lacking the official authorization? Tim

I was back there in May and there wasn't much to be had that I could find. There are Thai militaria collectors but they seem to be a select, somewhat discreet group that are hard to break into, especially if you're farang (white foreigner). You could try Pantip Plaza 2 on Ngamwongwam Rd (Nonthaburi). It's a mix of knock off items for the most part but on floor (4 or 5?) there is a collectors type floor where amulets and other odds and ends can be found in the various seller booths. Sometimes you can find militaria there. I came across a WW1 Iron Cross and French Legion of Honor (3rd Republic) but the IC had the ring cut right where the hallmark was and the LoH was not that great condition wise. The vendor was very nice to talk to but knew little of what he actually had. A couple of early American Legion medals and one state medal that peaked my interest in another stall but the vendor had to call the owner and once he heard a farang was asking, the price doubled. There was one booth that looked promising but the seller was away and either somewhere else in the plaza or..? I had someone call him but once he knew I was farang, was not immediately anxious to show up. I ended up leaving. I understand Chatuchak still has a weekend flea market that has a collectables section but never went to it. Imagine with the Thai's being very good at faking almost everything, you will not find many original items these days but, it might be worth a look? Good luck and please post any results or finds! Tim

The other thing I wanted to ask about; is there a way to determine the age, by either the crown or color of the red enamel? Here you can see two example and the crown designs are different. I'm not sure if the gilt 4th class utilized a different pattern than the silver 5th class but you can see the gilt grown is filled in and wider in dimension. Also, the color of the enamel appears dlightly different. Tim And another example here with a mix of era awards.

The wreath design has changed quite a bit over time but this version appears close to what has been around since at least WW2, the suspension is slightly different and maybe a bit more high relief to the leaves but the nicer wreath pattern IMO. Surprised it took so long for an "official" wound award.

Hi Paul, Interesting, as I would have thought with the 1915 date on the reverse, it would have been during WW1 under King Constantine I. The other possibility I had considered was, in the early 1920's under the first reign of King George (1922 -1924) as many awards were produced post war. Surprised to hear it was actually during the second reign (1935 -1947). I'm still trying to piece together some understanding of this medal bar and associated ribbon bars I have spanning WW1 into the 1940's. As you can see here, the ribbon bars have swords added to both the Order of George as well as the Order of the Phoenix, though the medal bar shows the (King George period) Phoenix without swords. I never did hear back on any George Order for this group but as everything came together, I assume they were originally part of the same estate and perhaps the George Order was never mounted? It also shows the updated ribbon from the 1940 (1st version) of the Military Merit Medal (yellow with black stripes) to the Medal for Outstanding Acts, later the Distinguished Conduct Medal (yellow with red stripes). I think the 2nd version of the medal changed in 1940 but I'm not sure when the ribbon actually changed to red stripes. As ribbon bars tend to be worn more often and thus updated more frequently, that may indicate later service, but I'm just not sure as so many things changed with this medal. Tim

Hi Paul, Greek ODM's are always a bit perplexing for me so thought I would ask here. How would you date this 5th class silver award, as it carries the 1915 date and swords for the military division? Peron, Can we see the reverse of the cased medal you show? Tim

Here's a full pic of the 1912 Balkans War Commemorative Medal with original ribbon and a close up of the Huguenin Frères mark. The 1913 Commemorative Cross can actually be found with both the straight or tri-fold ribbon and I think depends on who it was awarded to. Here's examples of both: Not in my collection and seen less often, is the version produced by Arthus Bertrand. Note the ring type suspension:

Jean-Sam, Probably Ebay is the best choice. Sometimes you find vintage replacement ribbon from old rolls that sellers have found and in some cases, these rolls might be from the 1970's when restrikes were still being produced.

Some photos are gone, so I'll post some old file pics I've saved over the years; don't remember where they came from anymore. First, another example similar to the one Jeff shows with the "VIII" on the upper obverse arm, but a bit larger pic and obv/rev: This one has the "II" on the upper arm and is, according to Lambert's earlier post #3, a Type 3 medal. I also have a lousy pic of this version with the non-combatant (white striped) ribbon. Tim

Hello Pierre-Yves and welcome to the forum. I have always enjoyed your site and used it often for French and Belgian information. Some very nice additions here too! Regards, Tim

Bill, Again, congrats!! Tim

Hugh, Nice Distinguish Service Cross! With the black colored slot brooch, I would say its a Robbins product. The "known" Robbins contract for DSC's was in February 1945, about a year and a half after the Army stopped requiring manufacturers from putting production numbers on their medals. Most U.S. medals produced after July 1943 were unnumbered. We do occasionally see Robbins examples with numbers and its speculated that they either reribboned existing stock in cases where ribbons were deteriorating or there were unissued numbered medal pendants that simply got used up and later ribboned by the Robbins Company with that black brooch. With that high of a serial number, its probably untraceable. Most that have any information are usually numbered below the 10,000 mark. Here's a couple more examples: Another Robbins with the blue issue box and contract label. Some, like this example, were left over and later used. The federal stock number label was put over the original purchase order label. And like your example, it has the blackened slot brooch: Here's another example that is numbered and in it's coffin style case. Note the type of brooch. And the numbering: Hope that helps some. Tim

From Navy Uniform Regulations:

I've cleaned a few items from time to time but usually it depended on exactly what the issue was. - If actual corrosion was happening (I/e: zincpest, verdigris, rust) I would gingerly try to remove it with something softer than the base metal and then use something like alcohol or in some cases vinegar to stop the process, though you have to watch out what anything acidic will do to the metal or finish. This usually prevents the metal from further deterioration. - If its only dirty or polish residue, then a simple soft toothbrush with warm water will normally remove anything. This should always be the first resolution IMO. Polishing and even silver dips actually remove surface material, even minutely and over time you lose surface finish and details. If a piece has been inappropriately cleaned in the past, sometimes you need to dip it again so you can start over, though you lose any aged patina. Usually, I do not recommend this, though I have seen some use commercial products like "Tarn-X" and that can often give a false patina and even change the coloration of the finish. Then, you have to decide what you want to do. Tim

Hard for me to say 100%. Tried to enlarge the photo/s a bit here but I think I can see the ribbon striping between some of these palms, even half-way down the ribbon. Larger, brighter pics would be better to say for sure. Tim

Hello Lambert, With that style brooch and three-digit manufacturer's code, I would say your Navy Cross is circa mid to late 1960's vintage, production wise. Hard to say how long it might have been used in the system as many were stocked at commands for use as needed. Could be Vietnam or even later, depending. Not sure who P-30 is, its one of those unidentified makers at this point. The quality of U.S. medals and decorations went down considerably after WW2, some manufacturers produced better quality strikes and some had better finishes but after the 1960's most were looking rather cheap compared to the more vintage pieces. I tend to think that trend is common worldwide honestly. Here's a close up of a U.S. Mint WW2 example and you can see the difference. Still, the one you have is a nicer strike for the more common varieties found these days. I do not believe the one posted in post #2 is fake. This is common of the quality seen on the later produced pieces circa 1970's and beyond. Here's another one: Same type of imperfections on the medal planchet.

Good morning Lambert! Very nice! I never really got into mini's per se but have seen some really nice examples over the years that I now would have liked to have had. Here's another full size bar that I missed out on sometime back. Was nice in that it had the New York state issued medals for WW1 and Mexican Border Service. Tim

Not sure if anyone is watching this auction that ends in a couple days? Normally, I would wait until after it ends to post comments about it but have some concerns with other items listed here and thought I better comment in case someone here has their sites set on it. Supposedly, a mini-bar attributed to Marine Corps LtG. Karl Day. http://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Mini-Medals-WWl-WWll-Lieutenant-General-Karl-S-Day-US-Marine-Corps-/351555771479?hash=item51da5b5c57:g:JhoAAOSwT5tWJnkY Not sure how knowledgeable the seller is here but another bar listed gives me some concerns and I know the bronze Antarctica Expedition Medal is fake, despite coming from someone's "museum" collection. There were only 160 medals awarded (60 gold ; 50 silver; 50 bronze) before the medal was abolished. If you look at the ribbon brooch and sew job, it looks period but the strike is that of a known reproduction. The seller knows this and has just relisted the item without disclosing that information. Not a good sign IMO. Anyway, the mini looks sharp, if original, just do the homework beforehand. Tim

Hi Dave, Yes, lots of garbage there for sure. Must have needed to change his ID as the word continues to reach buyers about his wares. Good job! He is correct on one point though, even his fakes are rare to find in Thailand! Cheers! Tim

Hi Paul, Yes, Gunner had commented in the British section where he added another example (w/swords) and gave a pretty good explanation on what happened in these cases, not only Russia. Thank you! Tim

That kind of brings a explanation into view for the bar I posted in #230, as I could not see what exactly that member was doing, though in my case, it was a civil version of the medal. May I add, this is exactly why this section is important as these type of issues are often not discussed or simply overlooked. Tim

Wow, what a distinguished and varied career, Thank you for sharing! Tim

Agree, a truly beautiful bar and interesting to see the St Anna with swords! Any story you can share on this guy? Tim