Streptile

Great stuff Wild Card Here's one not often seen.

Great idea. I see these accession numbers on all the artifacts at the Museum of Natural History and also at the Met here in NYC -- even on super valuable gold Egyptian necklaces and such.

This is a well-known indecipherable mystery mark. I doubt it's Juncker, but who knows?

Great story Don Congrats on getting and and thanks for showing it.

Very nice piece, thank you for showing it. I love the workmanship on these fine old pieces.

Totally typical J. Godet mini RAO3 with bow. Very nice.

Hi Paul, Good question. The main differences are: quality, materials and that special mystique that attends "awarded pieces." Wartime examples are of extremely high quality, made of gold or silver with exquisite workmanship. They belonged to, or could have belonged to, someone who wore them during the war. Only two makers are thought to have made wartime award-type PLMs, and these are the most highly regarded types. The postwar copies are also very nice, but the quality is quite poor, they were never awarded to anyone, and they were never worn in war. They are bronze gilt or silver. The overall design is substantially the same, but the actual dies are different and no one would mistake a postwar copy with the real, wartime artifact. Overall though, I think the biggest factor contributing to the high prices of pre-1918 examples is the fact that they were awarded or worn during the war.

Very nice post-WWII S&L as you rightly suspected. A wartime gilt piece runs about $20,000 with no damage. A gold piece runs to over $32,500. An S&L postwar bronze gilt piece as this one should go for about $500. An 800-marked postwar S&L, maybe $850. So the prices are pretty different.

I agree, this type is known as a "zweitstück" but it's not an original awarded type.

Very nice case! Congratulations. This is not really related (I know) but here is an interesting receipt from Godet's shop in 1904 for the Mecklenburg-Strelitz Großkreuz des Ordens der Wendischen Krone with brilliants. Check out the customer name... does that mean the Grand Duke himself?

Finally, another one that I believe to be an early period variant with acorns. I have a copy of a letter from the War Ministry office dated 29 August 1895 indicating that there was a problem with manufacturers making oakleaves after they were authorized, but before a final design had been accepted. This resulted in some oakleaves being made "contrary to regulations." I assume that these variant types (this one, and the one that looks like a Zähringer Lion oakleaf, which you have labeled "Variante 16," among others) are exactly what this letter referred to. Thus I think it's a fascinating piece. Here is a translation of the relevant letter: I am curious to know your thoughts on this piece. I have seen four such examples.

Reduction (Reduktion). I will supply measurements if required.

Variant 13. This is very close to the "Probe" but is not quite the same, as noted in your thread.

Variant 9. This type was made in silvered tin and also in real silver (I think).

Variant 3. I have a suspicion this type was manufactured by St&L but I don't have any proof.

Variant 2.

Variant 1

Variant 10 (maker: AWS)

Hi Tilo, I am following your (long overdue!) thread on SDA with great interest but the language barrier makes it hard for me to comment articulately. I'm happy you've begun a companion thread here, and I will add some comments and photos. First let me say that I am quite sure your "variant 5" is a fake. I wrote this over there too. There are indeed some original 1895 oakleaf clusters with sans-serif numerals (for example, your "variant 6"). But this variant 5 is almost always encountered on fake (Ninth Bead) EK2s with fake (crown/moon) 1914 WHS, or otherwise on quite obviously faked bars. I myself have never seen this variant 5 type on any bar that looked legitimate to me. If you would like some examples of this oakleaf on Ninth Bead fake sets, just ask and I will try to find some. Following this post I will add some photos of pieces from my collection. You may add them to your thread if you wish.

It's a beautiful original piece made after Nov. 1916. I should also add that it's a 2. Class, not a 1. Class as (apparently) is the thread-starter.

This is a succint and accurate summary

I don't know who made it or exactly when, but it's a fake or a copy. They're made in the same style in many different classes and grades (swords, swords on ring, with RAO Band, etc etc). The design of the central medallion is not correct (this is the most easily recognizeable problem), the quality is not there, the design of the swords is not correct, and the markings (for Wagner sv here, I think) are spurious. No serious dealer or auctioneer sells these as originals, although they are routinely sold as "post-1918 copies," which is a neat euphemism for a fake in almost all cases. Very reputable sellers (Straube, Bretzendorfer) sell them as "collector's copies." That said, it's a very nicely made piece and they do bring some money as collector's pieces, especially in the higher grades (with RAO Band, e.g.).

I would like to keep this thread going if possible, so I will show another shot of a 2. Class in-wear. The soldier is unidentified but looks like a Turk or a Slav to me.

Hi Lew, That is a very nicely made copy from (as the dealers and auctioneers say) "after 1918"

Very nice Tilo, thank you for posting this photo. I have a good archive of photos of this award in-wear and I never saw this one. Interestingly, the photography company mis-spelled the street they were located on as "Bismarkplatz."