peter monahan

Here's a quick and dirty crib from Wikipediaon the 3rd GRs service in WWI. The 2nd Battalion, as part of the Garwhal Brigade of the 7th (Meerut) Division, was sent to France a few months after the declaration of war in 1914. 2nd Bttn saw action came at La Bass?e & was involved in the defence of Festubert in November and Givenchy in December. The battalion remained on the Western Front until late 1915. At the Battle of Neuve Chapelle it took part in fierce fighting. In May it was involved in the battles of Festubert and Aubers. In September the battalion took part in the Battle of Loos which saw the regiment awarded its first Victoria Cross. on 25 September when Rifleman Kulbir Thapa performed with distinction near the village of Fauqissart, becoming the first Gurkha recipient of the award. The Battle of Loos was the battalion's last action on the Western Front and it left the 7th Division with the rest of the Garhwal Brigade for Egypt in December 1915 after the brigade became an independent unit. After its arrival in Egypt the 2nd Battalion saw active service against the Ottoman Empire and later took part in the Palestine campaign: first action during the Battles of Gaza & many other actions including the capture of Jerusalem in December. On 19 September 1918, the Megiddo Offensive, began and the battalion was involved in the capture of Sharon. For its part in the campaign the 3rd Gurkhas gained seven Battle Honours and the Theatre Honour "Palestine 1917-18" after such honours were granted to units in the 1920s. On 10 April 1918 at El Kefr in Egypt, Karanbahadur Rana of the 2nd Battalion became the regiment's second VC recipient . Elsewhere the 1st Battalion, from 1917, took part in the Mesopotamian Campaign (now Iraq), gaining only a single Battle Honour in the process: Battle of Sharqat (28-30 October 1918).

A Pilot AND a cavalryman! Very very nice.

Yes, so characterized by newspapermen ('newspaperpersons ?) who can't be bothered to do some basic research. The implication in the story I saw was that Canada is only now 'catching up' to the USA (and I mean no slight on American honours and awards here). In fact, Canada had 'wound stripes' a century ago, even if they've fallen abeyance more recently. On the other hand, just to play devil's advocate here, how will / should recipients and their families feel about a new "forgot to duck" award? Again, no disrepect to our troops - I have friends in Afghanistan even as I write this - but I've always been slightly bothered by the notion that we reward ba d luck. How do those of you who've seen the elephant feel about this? An honest question, BTW, and not an attempt toi start any quarrels / flame wars. Peter (clearly someone who has never served in an army/unit on active service)

As to the order of wearing, it seems possible, perhaps even likely, that the wearer of the ribbons mounted them himself (khaki ribbon) or had someone mount them to his specifications (the other medals) in the order in which he preferred them. Unless he stayed in the forces after 1945, there would be no one who could compel him to mount them "the right way" and I certainly know of members of the Royal Canadian Legion, both WWII vets and former UN peacekeepers who say "Stuff the regs, this is how I'm wearing them!" many of them also wear Legion awards, and not always on the right breast either. Many years ago I owned a lovely group to a senior Viceroy's Commissioned Officer in the Indian Army cavalry. he had served on the NW Frontier (1 medal, 2 bars) and in WWI in Syria (3 medals). He had also represented his regiment at the Diamond Jubilee celebrations in London in 1895, for which he was awarded the Royal Victorian Medal. In at least 2 photos he is shown, still a serving officer, wearing the RVM in last place! While the RVM is technically an 'order' by Her Majesty in person(as part of the RV Order) a 'been there' medal from the Queen Empress, possiibly bestowed by Her Majesty in person, was less important than his campaign medals. My tuppence worth Peter

Tony Yes, bare feet was the norm for KAR rankers until at least 1914. If you look carefully, however, you'll see that he is wearing puttees - dark blue if I recall correctedly - also standard for the regiment. A truly lovely shot of an underapreciated unit! Peter

Chris If you want "rare" you'll need to find one that's chromed - a few were for use by the (short-lived) Canadian Guards and clolour parties of other reg'ts too, I expect. Talk about trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear! The worst part of the No. 4 is that, while it was never useful for stabbing people - something it shares with MOST bayonets, IMHO. It isn't even useful for toasting cheese (too short) or opening cans (no edge). I suppose in a pinch a half dozen would make half-a**ed tent pegs to pin down a shelter half. In fact, IMHO, the spike bayonet is one of the classic examples of why "tradition" is not always a good thing! "We have to have swords to fight with" becomes "We have to have a blade to put on our firelocks, to fight with when we run out of musket balls" becomes "We have to have something to put on the end of the weapon, because we always have.". I'd love to see stats from Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan on how often and with what results bayonets are used in combat - can't think of any newsclips I've seen in which they're even fixed by troops in combat/on patrol. On the other hand, they make neat collectables and I'd buy one myself if I had the $ ! Peter

"Just because a boy (eats people's livers) doesn't make him ALL bad" Peter

Ed When were the last Indian units "de-horsed" and mechanized? I should know but the mind's going. I ask because using a sword without the benefit of a horse for speed and weight strikes me as a complicated form of suicide. I know that the last British units - Yeomanry Cavalry - actually made it to Vichy Lebanon and Iraq with their horses but lost them there. I also believe that, sadly, the US 26th wound up eating their horses in the last days before the Japanese completed their conquest of that area of the world. Peter

But did he really say "Nuts!" ? I have read suggestions that the actual answer was two words, the first of which has some of the same letters as "FiretrUCK" and the second of which rhymes with "toff". The suggestion, plus the notion that the history had to be cleaned up for public consumption in 1945, struck me as very plausible. Also quite in character for a hard-charging yank officer in the circumstances and a little more forceful, shall we say, than "Nuts." Has anyone else heard this suggestion? Of course, having read it 20+ years ago I have no recollection of the source, though I believe the author of the book had spoken to survivors of Bastogne, possibly even the author of the famed remark. Comments? Peter

"You can tell when the [fill in military unit of yr choice] have been through: your garbage has been picked over and the dogs are pregnant" Anonymous senior officer -speaking about his own men!

Brian I assume you've considered ironing the ribbon BEFORE putting it on the medal. That helps a bit but there's still the 'bulge' problem. I don't think there's a good answer other than cutting, which you don't want to do with rarer ribons. In the past I've glued front and back of ribbon together, but again, like cutting, it ruins a ribbon for future removal/re-use. Good luck, though. Please post whatever you get when done. Peter

I have to agree with Graham: there is a lot of mythology out there! I'm sure that some one of the Lincs reg'ts may well have worn yellow weskits at some point and equally sure it had nothing to do with standing out for the men. First, westkits were worn under a tunic which might be worn open in the mess but never in the field. Second, In the Napoleonic period, when waistcoats were part of the uniform, junior officers wore one epaulet and senior ones two, so OR's had to know the officers by face to even know their rank! Coloured coats would have been redudndant. Third, officers were either well to the front of a series of closed ranks ior behind them. Either way, unless they were running, the enemy would see the weskits befor the men did. So, maybe it was an "up yours, you can't hit me" invitation to enemy sharpshooters. Suicidal, but not impossible. Anyway, a charming story but probably not quite accurate and, clearly, productive of lots of nasty comments from the low soldiery of other regiments! Peter

I agree that the tank is Italian. Quite a number were employed by the British and other troops after capture. Years ago I even made up a model of one - covered in large white Kangaroos to protect it's new owners (Aussies) from "friendly fire". I no longer have the armoured figthing vehicle library I once did but if I can find some info. post an Id later today. Yeah, really nice shots and a great story/sovenir!

Nothing on the man himself, but here's a little info. (from Gordon's British battles and Medals: The 1st Battalion, 40th Regiment of Foot served in the 10th British Brigade (Maj.-Gen. Sir John Lambert), alonside the 4th and 27th Reg'ts. The 10th Bde was part of the 6th Division under Lieut.-Gen. Hon. Sir L. Cole. The 40th had 761 men entitled to the Waterloo Medal and their casualties were as follows: 2 officers killed; 10 officers wounded 30 rank & file killed 159 R & F wounded 18 R&F missing, for total casualties of 219 BTW, 12 officers killed and wounded would be, I'm guessing, a fairly high percentage of the officers present, so there is a good chance your man was one of them.

I'm not sure my description of the 'loops' was all that clear, but you can easily see the differences in that last post.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_12_2007/post-697-1198422661.jpgHere's an example of a British RHA (Royal Horse Artillery) tunic

I tend to agree with Rick: not British. The braiding doesn't look right for British, which tends to run in straight lines horizontally across the chest but without the 'connecting' loops this one has. The 'crowsfoot' on the sleeves looks wrong too: British would have three equal size loops, I think. But it does say "gunner" to me to. Colour is dicey, given both the probably age and the idiosyncrousies of colour photos, but the red doesn't look right for Uk either, even faded. It actually appears orange on the site here, which if true would maybe suggest Dutch?

On the question of when recruiting 'boys' ended, I have recently had some fascinating chats with 'a man in a pub'. Bob lives in Canada now, retired from running an electronics shop, but is originally from Scotland. I knew he had done been in the RAF but assumed it was Nationl Service (c. late '50's, early '60's) However, he told me recently that he had joined the RAF as a "Boy Apprentice" at 16 and was in fact one of the older boys in his recruit unit (section? platoon?) He trained in radar mintenance eventually and served in the UK and Singapore, at Changi. Not sure when he left the service but he clearly served some time. One anecdote, besides a description of Changi station, consisred of the following. On Day One of their service the lads were paraded before the Station Warrant Officer, who asked if any could play a musical instrument. Getting little or no response, he asked "What, not even a recorder?", at which Bob and 3-4 mates Raised their hands. Can you see this coming? He then dismissed the rest of the group to barracks and told of the 'muscians' to potato peelinf duty in the cook house, but only after asking "Didn't your dads tell you Never to volunteer for anything?" Peter

It doesn't appear to be either the Davidson's (which was issued to all ranks) or the Boulton's - the descriptions of the busts are wrong. Both of those are rare and valuable. One story is that once the tars realized the Davidson's weren't precious metal - an hence not saleable- they either threw them overside or nailed them to the mast of whatever ship they were serving on, even prying them off again when transferred to another vessel. Probably a privately produced souvenir piece, but if the condition is any indicator possibly contemporary to the event and therefore of some interest. Peter

I'm sure you're right, JB. A very quick search for "ROTC torch " comes up with dozens of hits, including a current metal insignia for JROTC students in th Basic service course. Peter Monahan

Nobody likes to get 'taken' ! Sorry it proved a bad'un but glad my tuppence worth helped, Peter

The two ways would be markings: maker's, proof, regimental etc and experience plus reseacrh- they are not in fact identical though I personally couldn't begin to tell you one form the other right here and now. OTH there are enough examples extant of each and good photos and drawings to be able to difference them. There are some good sword forums for this very specialized (and expensive) branch of collecting. Peter

again. Not ectuelly British, doncher know. An uppity colonial me: proud resident of the Dominion of Canada, where we have two official languages, and a few citizens who actually speak both fluently . Not, to my shame, me, although I can usually manage to order a beer, find the bog and precipitate a fight about sports in both English and French! And on a good day I can annoy cabbies in Toronto with my command of obscentity and invective in at least six of their native tongues!

Ok, I'm not touching paid to get serviced , but 'without queue' is interesting enough. Does it mean he/she doesn't have to line up or doesn't have a pigtail? Or maybe that the hairdressers don't have queues? Hmmm... "So unlike the home life of our own dear queen." Peter