Schießplatzmeister

Hello folks: OK, now for my "2 cents" worth. Even on this side of the pond, the good news is that your collection could be worth a bit more. Also, selling items in Europe will bring a better return. All "values" regarding these items are relative. It really doesn't matter what you pay (within the market "norm") as long as you enjoy what you collect. Whatever you pay for an item you should be able to get back at the time of sale (if you use good judgement regarding purchases). I have not seen a depreciation in "value" for these types of items since I have started collecting. The bad news is that as items become "worth" more, the criminal forgers will be out making copies of even what we considered "common" items not too long ago. Best regards, "SPM" ps: I don't think that I will ever be able to afford items from the "der Rittmeister" (which doesn't matter as there isn't much that is desirable there for me anyway).

Hello Jerome: Thank you for the additional photographs. The last grouping could possibly pass for Bavarians (I do not think that they are however). I did a bit of research and these uniforms do not look like the uniforms of Maximilian's Officers. I think that we can rule out my hypothesis regarding that possibility. Another thought is that perhaps they are Italian and connected to the 1859 conflict. If only one of the photos had a name on it, or an Officer was wearing an Order or medal! The mystery continues! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Jerome: These photographs are very interesting! I would like to start off by saying that I do not have a background in uniforms. These uniforms do look similar to period German uniforms, but I find nothing to specifically identify them as such. I am struck by the fact that these fellows look Spanish, Mexican, or South American, and not German. I have never seen a Bavarian Officer of this period sporting an earring! Do you have any other clues to their origin? Perhaps these were some of Maximillian's Officers? Best regards, "SPM"

Hello folks: Our deceptive "friend" is back at it again! http://cgi.ebay.de/Grosse-13er-Ordensspang...1QQcmdZViewItem He certainly is a persistent fellow! "SPM"

And..a closer view:

Hello everyone: Here is a group that I have in my collection which has the period replacement lifesaving medal of the type shown above. The Prussian 1st Class Landwehr Service Cross is also made from plated base-metal ("kriegsmetal"). The group was obviously constructed after 1934 and has a "C.G. ULRICH/NACHFOLGER/HAMBURG" tag on the reverse. I doubt that these poor quality medals were officially issued even late in the war (1918), but there were some of the other Prussian medals that were made in "kriegsmetal" at the very end of the period of issuance. This medal appears to be die-struck, but the details are unlike the earlier coinages. I believe that these pieces are probably private-purchase replacement pieces available post-1918. Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Paul R: The medal that you show is made of base-metal ("kriegsmetal") that is silver-plated. It is probably a very-late war period, or post-war period replacement piece. The ribbon is correct, as is the mounting. I have a piece almost identical to this one in a mounted group (see my posts below). Congratulations on acquiring such an interesting piece! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Razputin: Ask him for a photograph (even poor quality) of the reverse! "SPM"

Hello everyone: He is back at it again. This time he is purporting to sell an actual medal group! Again, it looks as though he has taken a photo of a photo for his listing. Someone should ask him for a photo of the reverse for fun! http://cgi.ebay.de/6er-Ordensspange-100-ig...1QQcmdZViewItem Simply amazing! Caveat emptor! "SPM"

Hello again everyone: It is rather obvious to me that no one is bidding this high on these photos and that most of the bids are "shill" bids (at least I hope that this is the case). The way that this fellow has written the description though doesn't really state WHAT he is selling. He merely states "refer to the photograph". Obviously, Ebay will NOT do anything as they don't care. I believe however that Herr Thies may have a problem with someone selling unauthorized copies of excerpts from his publications. This is indeed illegal here in the US and in Germany. Perhaps the threat of a copyright infringement suit would shut down his little scam attempt. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Hardy: This fellow seems to be offering to sell pieces that are not his. The bar that you mention is indeed the Wilhelm II bar that was sold by Thies. If you look carefully, he doesn't actually have any of the items. He has merely taken photos of the items from the catalogue. His descriptions state "Please see the picture of the group...etc.". I'm sure that all of the bids are not genuine (they are hidden of course). He has only a 13!!! feedback score. If some poor fellow actually bids, I believe that after paying, they will get a photo (taken from the Thies catalogue w/o permission) in the mail and a note of thanks. If you want to have fun, ask him for additional photos with the reverse of the items. I'm sure that he will come up with some wonderful excuse why this can't be done! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Bernd: A very interesting bar indeed! It is certainly strange to see the "NAN=HUNG=MEN" bar for the campaign in China on the DSWA campaign ribbon! I'm sure that he was probably involved in both campaigns. It seems as though he never got his China campaign medal mounted and simply lumped all of the overseas campaign stuff together in this manner. Congratulations on having such a nice bar! Could you also post a photo of the reverse? Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Westfale: You are correct, this is a Prussian pre-1913 nine (9) year service clasp variation for the recipient's mounted group of medals. The mounted group with this piece would of course have had the dark blue ribbon with black edge stripes. A nice "custom" item so that the recipient could wear all of his awards on one bar. Congratulations on obtaining such a nice and interesting piece! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Rick: Congratulations on owning a super-nice and super-rare bar. I love the lifesaving medal! You earlier mentioned "Not having our new member Kapitular's book on German Lifesaving awards, still don't know exactly how rare this medal is-- I only know that it was awarded between 1927 and 1934.". Unfortunately, neither one of Kapitular's books cover this medal. I'm certain however if you PM him, he will probably almost instantly have an answer! If anyone knows, he certainly will. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Kevin: The ribbon is a Bavarian MVK ribbon without a doubt! That is an interesting story regarding the work that his unit performed. Usually, I see some Bavarians that received W?rttemberg Bravery Medals, but this is a first. A great photograph! Thank you for sharing it with us. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Kapitular: A warm welcome to you! Thank you for joining us. It is nice to have you aboard. I'm certain that we will have many questions in the future that you can assist the membership in answering. Also, thank you for pointing out your excellent book regarding lifesaving medals to the membership here (For all of you who do not have this book it is a "MUST HAVE" addition to the library of any Imperial German medal collector). Gru?, "SPM"

Hello Mossop: Congratulations regarding your acquisition! From the photo, it is not possible to tell exactly what the cross is. However, logic would point to this probably being a Hannovarian 25 year service cross for Officers. So, I believe that minus any other supporting data, this is the only thing that makes sense. If you provide his name, someone at this forum, could undoubtedly check to see if his awards are listed in any literature. I only have an 1849 ranklist (which I can check), but perhaps Wildcard, or some other folks, have an earlier one? Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Gents: The photo of the reverse of the modern forgery 1870 EKI posted at the top of this article was stamped "DESCHLER..." by the forgers, but solder has covered portions of the stamping making it look like "RESCH". Note that Resch of Vienna, Austria was a genuine maker of Orders and decorations at one time. There mark however was "Gebr. Resch" (for Gebr?der Resch/Resch Brothers). This EK is a forgery in any guise, no matter what it is stamped (ligible or not!). The seller started it at AU$800, but wouldn't take AU$1,100 for it later??? There were not bids due to poor auction timing???Yes, this makes perfect sense! (NOT!). No one bid on this because it is a modern FORGERY, and I hate to surmise that anyone may not tell the truth, but I don't think the "fellow in Japan" exists! Caveat Emptor! "SPM"

Hello Sam: I saw this too! What a great grouping. If you post this in the Turkish section of the forum, there will be a number of folks there who will know the answer. Tim Tezer is an expert (he would never say that he is, but this IS the case) in this area and should be able to respond and help. Best regards, "SPM"

Hallo militaria0815: "Dienstauszeichnung des Hessischen Landesvereins vom Roten Kreuz f?r 10 Jahre treue Dienste". Verleihungszeit? (nach 1918) Gru?, "SPM"

Hello Yankee: I hope that all is well. I think that I have an unfair advantage as I know that you have what I think resides inside this case: 1) Kingdom of Hannover (or exile period)? 2) Ernst August Order? 3) Knight 1st Class? Like I said, if I have this right, I had an unfair advantage! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Jeff: An interesting piece that you show for inspection. I think that you may have nailed this one already. It is not an official award and will not appear in H&S or any other reference regarding official awards as far as I know. Best regards "SPM" (An old friend who visited you at the American Legion hall show many years ago in San Antonio when we were both in Texas)

Hello All: The War Honor Cross looks like it was possibly harshly cleaned to remove rust (I think that I see pitting on the right arm of the cross). Of course these crosses are usually found struck in steel which was bronzed. Thus, the strange look of the cross (the shiny steel can be seen showing in places through the matte bronze finish). Such corrosion would be consistent with the "lovely" zinc oxidation bloom that has infected the backing plate. This group was probably stored in someone's basement for a few years after Opa went to Valhalla. Best regards, "SPM" p.s.: Oh yes, I see rust spots on the War Honor Cross ribbon. This group was definately exposed to a bit of moisture!

Hello again Troy: Sorry, sometimes my command of the English language suffers a bit! I meant to convey that the medal was not an awarded example. This item would have been purchased by the recipient of an awarded medal as an extra piece to wear on his mounted medal group, or to replace a lost original, for example. The piece is a "copy", but it is something that was made during the period in which a recipient of the official medal lived. It therefore has collectable value (although perhaps a little less than that of an officially-awarded medal). I hope that this clarifies the situation. Congratulations on owning an interesting piece of history! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Mike: Everything that Komtur is telling you about this piece is correct. It is certainly not an awarded piece. It would commonly pass at Militaria shows/Ebay as a "1920's-1930's wearing copy". The quality is certainly not up to what I would think that a piece from even that era should exibit. In my opinion (everyone has one don't they), this piece is probably a post-1945 copy made to deceive collectors. My advice would be to pass on it, unless you purchase it as a copy at a price which would be reasonable for such a copy. Good luck with whatever you decide! "SPM"