Schießplatzmeister

Dear Chris: Thank you for posting a photo of this item. Narrow ribbon ARE possible on genuine groups (especially if an Officer received many awards it allowed for easier mounting). In my opinion, from what I see, this group is recently assembled. There are many problems with the combination of awards on this bar and the order in which they appear. You should not purchase it at any price in my opinion. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Chris: The "usual" for a silver MVM/TKM recipient was: Silver MVM/TKM; MVK III w/ Swords; and an EKII. A wound badge either black or silver and a nine (9) year service medal were not uncommon in addition to the above. However, since this is a "trick" question. It was of course possible to only receive the silver MVM/TKM and nothing else. Or, as stated the MVM/TKM + EKII only. Or, the MVM/TKM + MVK III w/ Swords only. Please show us what you have. "SPM"

Hello again Jay: You are correct, technically the "Kaisersschlacht" continue into July (MY mistake). In reality, during Operation Michael, starting on March 21, 1918, significant gains were made initially, but once the momentum stopped a few hours/days later (depending on the location on the front), all hope of victory was inevitably lost for Germany. I believe that the Ardennes Offensive in WWII was a tactical parallel. It sounds like your display piece will be very nice when you are finished with it. Congratulations. "SPM"

Hello again Jay: I believe that the "Kaiser's Battle" was long over by April 30, 1918. I believe that the date should read 30. März 1918 if he actually fell during the Kaisersschlacht. Or, perhaps he died later of wounds received during the "Kaiser's Battle". If you post a scan of the SB (death card) there are plenty of folks here that can help you determine what the meaning is. What awards came with the grouping? "SPM"

Hello Jay: The word in German for fallen in battle is "Gefallen". "Heldentod fürs Vaterland" ("Died bravely for the Fatherland") was often used during WWI as were various other phrases. Here are two links to the German War Graves Commission equivalent: http://www.volksbund.de/kurzprofil/homepage_en.asp http://www.volksbund.de/kurzprofil/homepage.asp Good luck with your quest. "SPM"

Hello: Most WWI veterans groups seen with long-service awards were for NCO's who started serving before 1914, as most 1914-1918 volunteers/conscripted soldiers never had enough service time to qualify for a long-service award. It was however possible to be a long-serving enlisted man who never received a promotion due to various reasons and receive a long-service award as noted above. I believe that the Prussian long-service awards were actually not often given out during the war, but were usually physically awarded after November 1918. Best regards

Here is the link to their shop on-line: http://www.wkc-solingen.de/newshop/index.html Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Lorenzo: This is a very interesting sword. I am certain that WKC can help you regarding the missing parts. They have a shop on-line. They might even be able to tell you when they had the contract for this sword. Stay safe and have a good tour. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Naxos: I believe that you are 100% correct! I was looking at the name as "Roth" as the only possibility as that was what was listed by Misiu. I did not even consider Johann Peter Röth who IS listed in the Zelosko series. Johann Peter Röth makes perfect sense. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Naxos: I missed this recipient as I didn't see him listed in the Zelosko series. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello militaria0815: Wow! What a fantastic group! Congratulations! MfG, "SPM"

Hello Misiu: Thank you for discussing this fantastic group. This group probably belonged to Kanonier Joseph Roth of a FAR who was awarded the MKFVM on March 4, 1871. I do not think that the €5.000 price is too out of line. If you add-up the values of the original awards and consider the fact that the recipient is known, in auction, there would be strong bidding for this group and this price would probably be reached without much problem. From what I see, the bar is 100% original (even with the low-resolution photo and without seeing the reverse). Best regards, "SPM" ps: By the way, the rarest and most desirable award on this bar is not the OZL Merit Cross, it is the Military Karl Friedrich Order Merit Medal.

Hello: This is a nice Deschler piece with the case and a piece of ribbon for officials. I would estimate the value in the range of US$225-$275. Note that this is a "bayerische Miltär-Verdienstkreuz" (Bavarian Military MERIT Cross) which was an award associated with merit and not service. Bavaria had distinct awards for service which were not related to this item. A nice piece that looks to be original (forgeries do exist). How much was the seller asking for it? Best regards, "SPM"

Hello: This is a nice Deschler piece with the case and a piece of ribbon for officials. I would estimate the value in the range of US$225-$275. Note that this is a "bayerische Miltär-Verdienstkreuz" (Bavarian Military MERIT Cross) which was an award associated with merit and not service. Bavaria had distinct awards for service which were not related to this item. A nice piece that looks to be original (forgeries do exist). How much was the seller asking for it? Best regards, "SPM"

Hello again: Fishing used to frustrate me often too! The "fun factor" in collecting Imperial Orders and Decorations is not there often anymore for me either. It has become hard work keeping vigilant of forgeries, problems with the postal system, etc. Without inspecting the pieces firsthand, it is rather difficult to make any proper analysis. Sascha pointed out that there are cast copies about. I have not personally inspected one of these yet. My suggestion would be to search-out a copy and to get good photographs of it. Perhaps this will help to know what to avoid. I would certainly wait to purchase a piece until you have studied a few copies and a few genuine pieces. There are undoubtedly many original pieces on groups that members on this forum own. Perhaps someone will post some photos of these pieces which may help a bit. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Viliam: You are correct, these awards are relatively uncommon and much under-valued. I believe that Mr. Turk at www.emedals.ca has at least one example available currently in his listings and there are some photos there. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Chris: It is the ribbon for the 3rd Reich "Luftschutz Ehrenzeichen 1. oder 2. Stufe" (Air Raid Protection Service Award 1st or 2nd Class). Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Chris: Sadly, you are correct! I do beg to differ a bit though and think that "pondscum" is too complimentary for these types of individuals. There will be a day soon where these types of items will no longer be on public display due to this type of criminal activity. "SPM"

Hello Sergio: The medal is definately not "original". "Original" (awarded) pieces were struck in steel and are magnetic. This piece appears to be a period (1930's) privately-made piece for veterans. It is therefore a valid collectible item and not a modern-day forgery made to deceive collectors (which would be worthless in my opinion). From what I see of the group and the field ribbon bar, there are no problems and everything seems to be as it should be. Congratulations! "SPM" ps: A general word of caution, just because a piece is found on any dealer's website, this should not give it 100% creedence. Dealers are human (they don't know everything and can make mistakes). That being said, I personally have never had a problem with Mr. Weitze and believe that he is one of the better dealers. There are other dealers to be found that are very dishonest however.

Hello Chris: The estimate was 300,000 to 500,000 pounds sterling. So, the starting bid was probably 250,000-300,000 pounds sterling or so. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello everyone: I just checked the "prices realised" list from the October 22nd sale and the Star to Admiral Lord Nelson was withdrawn from the sale or unsold. I guess that the horrid economy is taking a bit of a toll on prospective bidders for items of this type! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Daniel: Welcome to the forum! The website regarding your grandfather is wonderfully done. I enjoyed reading it very much. I would like to point out another great research tool right here in our "backyard" which I have used in the past. It is the Leo Baeck Institute in New York. They are most helpful and have a great many resources available. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Timo: Thank you for sharing the photos of this medal. This example looks like it is probably die-struck. It also looks to be bronze that was silvered. It is not one of the many types of modern forgeries circulating. I believe that it is a quality piece made for the private purchase of veterans. It could have been made as late as the 1960's for this purpose. The ribbon also looks to be post-1945. An interesting piece. Best regards, "SPM"

Excellent Christophe! Does anyone know if there are PFLHO rolls out there? If so, this ribbon bar could be identified possibly. As the Army/Oldenburg PFLHO/Austrian Order of the Iron Crown combination narrows it down a bit more. "SPM"