Finland Finnish Awards To Germans In WW1

[Stogieman]

I'll open this one up and invite everyone to show their Finnish Awards given to Germans in WW1. Ribbon Bars, Medal Bars, what have you? This little baby just arrived from Germany yesterday! There's only one Saxon Regiment that could have received this combination!

:excl: Warning! Please no public discussion about award numbers, this has remained one of the best kept secrets of the Imperial Era! If you let all those dealers know how many of these are actually out there...... flame

[Stogieman]

Now, what else is there about this bar that makes it so rare???

[landsknechte]

My lone WWI contribution:

[Guest Rick Research]

Rittmeister Graf von Bernstorff's Cross of Liberty 2nd Class Military group

Assistenzarzt dR Dr. med. Max Bachem's CoL 3rd Military (no campaign medal-- he arrived right after the fighting actually stopped, and was shipped to Palestine just in time for the Turkish collapse)

and a CoL 4th Class Military with the "bow tie" worn by Finns on military awards

[Guest Rick Research]

Remember! We do NOT publicly discuss NUMBERS awarded of Crosses of Liberty: driving up prices on ourselves is NOT a good idea!!!!

Here is a Medal of Liberty 1st Class 1918 to an ex-NCO from Gebirgsmaschinengewehrabteilung 229. SILVER Finnish awards are date hallmarked. The 1918 MoL silver medals were made by Sporrong & Company in Stockholm (even the oxydized steel War of Independence medals bear their maker hallmarks), so they have SWEDISH date codes. Later versions have Finnish maker marks and dates.

My ribbon bars with 1918 Finnish awards are scattered-- I'll come back and post those later. I only have the 1941 versions grouped.

Sporrong's silver marks on this MoL

and their mark (no silver hallmark or date code sincethis is NOT silver) on the Independence War Medal

S.& Co. is their maker mark, and the crowned female head is the Stockholm city mark. "Q7" was the Swedish silver mark for 1918 and the other mark is for "silver."

[Bob Hunter]

My only Finnish award shows up on the end of this bar.

[Ralph A]

Very nice! I've missed out on several of these lately. High demand.

[Deruelle]

Hi,

My only contribution : one ribbon bar

Christophe

[Stogieman]

I've had a number of ribbon bars with Finnish stuff, but I do believe this is the first medal bar that has crossed my desk. I like it an awful lot and the "stupidly rare" thing is just making it so much better!!!!

[Stogieman]

C'mon now......... I know there's others out there!!

[HeikoGrusdat]

here is my addition to this topic, at the moment my one and only bar with a finish medal on it but one more will arrive soon.... I will post it as soon as I have it.

Heiko

[Ralph A]

Why is this one on a black ribbon?

[Peter J]

Ralph, that's a mourning cross 4th class. These came only in 4th class and was given to relatives. Here's a 1939 version.

KR

Peter

[HeikoGrusdat]

here are now my latest finish medals on a german bar, I will show the bar more detailed in another category bur here are some finish specials... does any finish member or expert know anything about the clasps on the medal, maybe privat purchased or even official???? Please help on this point.

Heiko

[HeikoGrusdat]

my love...

[HeikoGrusdat]

clasps detailed...

[HeikoGrusdat]

and the complete bar for all these medals.... I think some of you will know the owner, some may find it out... some minutes of guessing

enjoy

Heiko

[Pete A]

Well, a very suitable topic for my first post.. That's a very nice bar you got there Heiko, and maybe i can help you a bit with the finnish campaign bars.

The Commemorative medal of Liberation War was instituted in 10.9.1918. In the statutes there was a mention, that a person who had taken part of the war under the enemy fire, was eligble to wear a small silber bar on the ribbon of the medal, each one bearing the name of a battle he had taken part of. There was eleven of them, in finnish (and in swedish):

Pohjanmaan Vapautus (?sterbottens befriande)

Villpula (Filppula)

Tampere (Tammerfors)

Satakunta (Satakunda)

Savo (Savolax)

Karjalan Rintama (Karelska fronten)

Viipuri (Viborg)

Lemp??l?-Lahti (Lemp?l? - Lahtis)

Kouvola-Kotka-Hamina (Kouvola - Kotka - Fredrikshamn)

Pellinki (Pellinge)

Etel?-Suomi (Syd-Finland)

because of the late institution of the medal, many germans who had fought in Finland, didn't manage to get the medal before they left the country in november, and after the war many didn't even know that they would have been eligble for such thing. And needless to say, there weren't many germans who knew that they would be even entitled to have bars on their medal.

In your bar (which seems to be the Altvater bar from Andreas Thies?) are the bars in swedish, '?sterbottens befriande' (Liberation of Osthrobotnia) and 'Syd-Finland' (Southern-Finland). Now, I have no idea what mr. Altvater did in Finland (something remarkable, apparently, for he got the cross of liberty 2nd class), but basicly germans who took part of the Finnish campaign in either the Ostsee-Division or in Brigade Brandenstein, would have been eligbe only to the bars 'Etel?-Suomi', 'Lemp??l?-Lahti', and 'Kotka-Kouvola-Hamina' (or their swedish equivalents). naturally, there was german individuals who fought under these formations, most notably those ex-german officers on Prussian J?gerbattalion 27, who came to Finland with their men. But the bar '?sterbottens befriande' is usually seen in Finnish groups only, since the participants were mainly men from that area, Osthrobotnia. And Altvater being a navy guy, that seems even more strange.

But like said, campaign bars in German groups are rare.

[HeikoGrusdat]

Right, it is the bar of Auti Altvater who was a minesweeper during ww1, now I am not a naval expert for ww1 and I do not know where in the northsea and eastsea the minefields were.... it is hard to get information about navy officers during ww1, maybe some navy experts have more facts about Altvater in ww1...

[Pete A]

Yes, as a naval person, he would have technically been right to have only one bar, the 'South Finland' one. The '?sterbottens..' bar was basicly for those men who took part of the initial disarming of the russian troops & garrisons in the Osthrobotnia region, and to my knowledge there were no germans present. So maybe Altvater got mixed with the whole liberation thing, since that's what the germans were doing in Finland in the first place.

Oh, and forgot to mention, bars weren't issued with the medal, but were indeed privately purchased. As the only given regulations were the eleven above mentioned campaigns, and the size of the bar (4mm wide, 31mm long), this naturally resulted dozens of style & font variations. And of course, as the regualtions weren't always followed, people made up their own campaigns and battles they thought they'd deserve to mention in their medal.

[Bob Hunter]

RR may have something to contribute on Altvater when he sees this bar.

[HeikoGrusdat]

I have forgotten the reverse.... and thanks for all finish expert help so far

[Bob Hunter]

Heiko, where did you find such a magnificent medal bar?

[HeikoGrusdat]

Bob, it went to auction some weeks ago by Andreas Thies in Germany... it was his 5th great auction in a line after the ones with the stuff from Ludvigsen and Seymore

really great auctions... ($$$)

Heiko

[Guest Rick Research]

Altvater was in charge of the minesweeping unit that cleared out the former Tsarist coastal defense belts in the Gulf of Finland. I don't think the Reds added any newer mine fields from Petrograd out into the Gulf. See the other thread on this bar for some career/biographical data.

Here is my bar, on a medal with the heraldic rose used as a sort of "mentioned in dispatches" distinction-- the slide on silver bar finely engraved in Finnish to a Finnish recipient. I think only one bar was supposed to be worn, no matter how many were earned.

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