Soviet Red Banner #7 & #8 - yes or no?

[Christophe]

Christian and others,

I'm really surprised none of us can provide better shots of these two photographs (Marshal Pstygo and Gen. Golubev) in post #37. Let's dig everywhere; it should (or not) bring a first evidence and clarify things...

Cheers.

Ch.

[Ferdinand]

Just an addition: two late picture of Marshal of Air Forces Ivan Ivanovich Pstygo. All 8 Red Banners are visible as ribbons.

Edited December 17, 2006 by Ferdinand

[order_of_victory]

Just looking for somthing completly un related on the internet and he has a number seven for sal and says that it mentioned in AVERS.

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN

But all his items look rather supect just look at his First Class Crab with out a caverliers doc

Oh and he has this lovely COA for for one of them

Order of Victory

Edited December 17, 2006 by order_of_victory

[JimZ]

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but who exactly issued that COA??

Jim

[order_of_victory]

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but who exactly issued that COA??

Jim

Jim,

Thats a very good question

Order of Victroy

[Ferdinand]

http://www.authentications.info is at the bottom of the doc.

[Gerd Becker]

Jim, don?t you can read? An Expert issued this document. okay, he is nameless, but he is an EXPERT, man!!!

[JimZ]

It reads:

"V.K.CERTIFICATE company specializes in authentication of orders, medals and badges from Germany (1914-1945) and Russia (1894-1945). We have prepared material to publish two books on the subject and soon these books will be available on the market. Our team has a broad knowledge in history and many years of experience in collectables, authentication and research. Every one of us has education in historic sciences and archive research. One of us has a PhD in History and has done a lot of scientific publications."

That does not answer my query. Who???? And so what anyways - having education in historic sciences and archive research, even having a PhD in History does not make necessarily you an expert in medals. My own father is such a person holding graduate and post graduate degrees in history. Having also taught history for a great many numbers of years and having carried out continued research even after his retirement does not automatically qualify him as an expert on authenticating medals!!!!

My opinion!! Be wary of any COAs if you do not know exactly who is issuing them!

As for the original theme.... I've said it, others have said it.... "Dig up those pics". Anyone awarded a #7 or higher surely was not a nobody and somewhere, publications, pics or other period documentary evidence must exist! Till then its highly suspicious whether or not any high numbered Red Banner, even if in a collection, even if scrutinised by experts is original or not. With mints and russian bureacractic system, I am sure that somewhere, someone holds the answer. Finding this person and apparantly finding the evidence has been and will remain elusive....... But with no definite proof that these awards did not exist, there is nothing that can stop speculation.

Jim

[Christian Zulus]

Second Order of the Oktoberrevolution !!!!!!!!

Just an addition: two late picture of Marshal of Air Forces Ivan Ivanovich Pstygo. All 8 Red Banners are visible as ribbons.

Dear Ferdinand,

many thanks for the nice pics of the late Marshal Pstygo, even if we don't see him with full decorations to make out his RB #7 & RB #8 .

What we can make out at the scans is, that comrade Pstygo wears 2 (two) Orders of the Oktoberrevolution(!!!!) . Such cases are rare and against the regulations and statutes of the order.

I only know two further comrades, who received a second Oktoberrevolution:

- Brezhnev (that has to be logic )

- Volodymyr Shcherbytsky (Владимир Васильевич Щербицкий), who had been party-chief in the Ukraine for many, many years.

How could these happen? Rather simple: The first Oktoberrevolution the comrades received from the Supreme Soviet of the CCCP and the second award they got from the Supreme Soviet of Ukraine .

Best regards

Christian

[NavyFCO]

I looked all through my photos from Chief Marshal of Avation Koldunov for pics of Pstygo, but I couldn't find him. Maybe someone else might have more luck if they have time.

http://www.forvalor.com/s90a.htm

Dave

[Bryan]

Second Order of the Oktoberrevolution !!!!!!!!

I only know two further comrades, who received a second Oktoberrevolution:

- Brezhnev (that has to be logic )

- Volodymyr Shcherbytsky (Владимир Васильевич Щербицкий), who had been party-chief in the Ukraine for many, many years.

Here is an other one for you Christian!

Ж. Я. Kотина

Edited December 18, 2006 by Soviet

[Christophe]

More details about our friend (for Russian speaking Members...).

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

[Christophe]

Pic with medals.

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

[Christophe]

All his orders and medals.

Ch.

Pic : ? Christophe ? ChR Collection

[Bryan]

Hehe, tu es all? faire un tour r?cemment au mus?e!

[Christophe]

Comment as-tu devin? ?

Ch.

[Bryan]

I have to admit it was the best museum I have seen so far in regards to Soviet medals!

[JimZ]

Christophe...... Soviet.....

Which museum is that if I may ask

Jim

[Christophe]

This is the Central Armed Forces Museum, in Moscow. An excellent one. I recommend the visit

Ch.

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, the #1 destination for Soviet phaleristic museums. See other threads for more pictures. Especially: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=9297

[Christian Zulus]

Dear Bryan,

dear Christophe,

many thanks for the great pics

It has been my first time, to see comrade Ustinov as a (rather) young guy .

So, to receive 2 (two) Octoberrevolutions was not soooooo uncommon ?

One from the CCCP and one from the Republic ?

Best regards

Christian

BTW: Central Armed Forces Museum is THE "Mekka" for Military-fans, because it is the home of the "Victory-Banner" from the Reichstag - the most important symbol of the GPW.

Edited December 23, 2006 by Christian Zulus

[Bryan]

Christian, I believe I read somewhere that 6 persons were awarded with 2 October Revolution orders.

[Christian Zulus]

Christian, I believe I read somewhere that 6 persons were awarded with 2 October Revolution orders.

Dear Bryan,

so, we already spotted 4 persons .

Who are the other 2 comrades?

Best regards

Christian

[Christophe]

Several sources, including Shishkov & Muzalevsky's book (p.38), mention the astrophysicist A.B. Severny. He seems to be the 5th one!!!

Ch.

[Ed_Haynes]

So, back to the issue at hand, I guess the next step is for some one (or some ones) to put in for complete research on these known mult-Red Banner chaps. It will be a very different matter if their seventh and eighth Red Banners are numbered XXXXXX or if they are numbered XX or even just X? That should tell us what we want to know?

Awards records cards on these chaps would reveal all? Or at least something??