saschaw Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Some months ago, I had to(!) buy this one on the IWB in Stuttgart. The seller had it the year before and didn't get it sold, and I almost bought it, but this year I wasn't able to miss it, although it was damaged and very well worn, and not to cheap. The 3rd ribbon was missing but I found a little rest of it on the back so I knew what I had to replace, please don't ask why someone removed an Oldenburg ribbon ??? It's an 11 place ribbon bar, with: - Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz II. Klasse; - Preu?en, Hausorden von Hohenzollern, Kreuz der Ritter mit Schwertern; - Oldenburg, Friedrich August-Kreuz II. Klasse (ribbon replaced); - Baden, Zähringer Löwe, Ritterkreuz I. Klasse mit Schwertern; - Hamburg, Hanseatenkreuz; - Lübeck, Hanseatenkreuz; - Dt. Reich, Chinadenkmünze; - Preußen, Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse; - Preußen, Dienstauszeichnungskreuz für Offiziere; - Preußen, Centenarmedaille; - Osmanisches Reich, Kriegsmedaille. This guy was navy, wasn't he? And the Zähringer has to be 3aX as this guy was for sure not an Leutnant or Oberleutnant, and if he had been Hauptmann, there should be a BZL3bElX, right? I'm not sure if he can be identified, as I have not yet the Roth volume to check the navy recipients of BZL3aX - and as the rest is almost "standart" ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 The back is RED - well, why not ... These bars were used from Godet, am I right with this? Hope you like my favorite ribbon bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 (edited) Hi Sascha!It looks very nice and you're to say that, from what I can see (see the needle system on the back), it's a Godet made ribbon bar. Usually later in the years from the 30ies until the end Godet almost only used grey backing (see below), but I have also 2 old Godet medal bars (pre WWI, military and civilian) which have a red backing.I would date your ribbon bar as early 20ies.Maybe they took off the FAK2 ribbon maybe because it had the "vor dem Feinde" clasp on it and was used for making an updated ribbon bar with Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer... just guessing!My compliments for the ribbon bar, btw! Ciao,Claudio Edited October 31, 2006 by Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 Thanks for the compliment, your's isnt that bad, too. Maybe they took off the FAK2 ribbon maybe because it had the "vor dem Feinde" clasp on it and was used for making an updated ribbon bar with Ehrenkreuz f?r Frontk?mpfer... just guessing!You might be right, I also thought like this and think to replace it as soon as I can get one. Does some have a homeless "Vor Dem Feinde" bar in ribbon bar size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Very nice frontspange, Sascha. This guy was a real "Weihnachtsbaum" with all those orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 I am not convinced this is a Navy guy, with this backing. The combination seems to suggest Navy, but it might also be an Army, General staff type. IF he was Navy: There are only 18 Navy holders of the Zähringen 1st cl listed. Of these, the only possibility is Gustav von Stosch, entered Navy in 1894, discharged as char. Kap. zS in 1920. The awards seem to match: In 1918, he holds the EK1, RAO4, HHOX, L?beck and Oldenburg. So only Hamburg and TWM are missing. HOWEVER: He is listed in the DOA 1908/09 with only RAO4 and Centenary... BUT NO China medal! So I believe it is not him. I think we have to turn to Army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 Thanks that far for your help, Gentlemean. Are there any more opinions about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Nice bars from BOTH Saschaw & Claudio!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 I couldn't find a match in the 1918 navy or 1924 Reichsheer, but buried in transcribing the wartime awards rolls, I just don't have TIME as I used to to set aside what would be a "working" research hours day to hunt down things like this. Daniel is a mean boss and gets very cranky when my typing output falls behind "quota." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 Thanks, ich really do have understanding for this. I would never really expect this, but if something easier could be identified, I'd be grateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Bringing this thread up once more as well, as I recently came to mind I might have had a logical error here! This may well be a BZL3bX and then not a RAO4 but an Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen, a bar to a elderly NCO who got bumped up to (at least) Leutnant, then getting a Hohenzollern and a Zähringer. Not this would make it easier to identify him, but it had to be said as both does seem possible and with noone turning out with BZL3aX, this might now be pretty right?! :banger: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 No, that's LESS likely. OK, in the 2 years since you posted this, we've done a lot of Rolls work. Ask the Lübeck boys-- I'd now be willing to say this was char. Generalmajor aD (from Marine Infantry) Julius Friedrich Wilhelm Hilmar von Bernuth (1861-1957). He matches on HOH3X, OK (1), BZ3aXmE (almost never find an E device), HH, RAO4, XXV, and 1897. I cannot confirm the China-- might have been steel, after all, or LüH, or a TH. He also got KO2X. The combination of Baden, Oldenburg, and Hanseatics just never "clicked" in my mind before as potentially Marinekoporps Flandern. My Lt dR from Mecklenburg got HIS TH there, in Flanders, as a Marine Division Orderly Officer in 1917, so some visiting Pasha on the Belgian coast giving regimental commander von Bernuth one is not out of the question--weird as it seems. Seek photo of von Bernuth/Lübeck Hanseatic Cross entry. :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 Bumping this thread up once more for the Lübeck boys. Please, can you confirm Bernuth to get an Lübeck cross... ? That would be... yes, would be very nice. :whistle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Sascha,Your ribbon bar is really nice one! Regarding the needle system, is this one possible Godet made ribbon bar as well? It is so common combination but the quality is amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Yes, classic Godet hinge and backing! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stijn David Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Hello, Been a bit late in this thread => no match on L?H (and the roll is been completed => so either this one did not stand in the roll or you need to find another person. Cordial greetings, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhh. Still, more and more know we KNOW somebody CAN or CANNOT be a "suspect." Sascha-- YOUR guy must be "related" to MY Baden-L?beck 3 A.M. pacing the floors guy--WARTIME Oberstleutnant (BZ3aXE) ? Or 1920 Major aD (BZ3bXE as lucky Hptm with pre-war RAO4) ? SCHAUMBURG House Order ? Or DETMOLD ? :banger: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 thanks webr55! I presume then that this one is Godet made as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted July 9, 2008 Author Share Posted July 9, 2008 (edited) Timo, yes, that is Godet. PS: Thanks to all that tried to solve my bar above, but that seems again to be one more of the "undoable". I hate when bars look very identifiable but though actually are not... Rick, one thing about the oak leave devices: this is a Godet made bar. I'm pretty sure at least they had those in stock. Possibly others didn't, but Godet *should* have had. By the way, I know at least one bar that has the oaks though there should be none - so now you know why there weren't enough devices for bars that should have. PPS: Rick, regarding your bar from #17: I'd take it. Well, seriously (sure, I'd take it even seriously ). What I actually wanted to write: are you sure that is a Lippe house order? Baden's Berthold Order used the same or a very similar ribbon. I've hardly ever seen a "Berthold" in a mounted group, but any Z?hringer with swords should outrank a Berthold without... PPPS: if that was the clue, I'd say the bar is the prize for solving the mystery. :catjava: Edited July 9, 2008 by saschaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted July 9, 2008 Share Posted July 9, 2008 Thanks Sascha! Now I am sure how to recognise usual Godet this period bars! I found few anothers from my small small collection!!!!! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeikoGrusdat Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Timo............. your collection is not as small as you want to tell us........ always growing with good pieces!!!! :beer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 thanks webr55! I presume then that this one is Godet made as well?Yes, as Sascha said, that is Godet.BTW, has this one been ID'd yet? Clearly the lower one of a double-row... I wonder if this is a Bavarian doctor (Luitpold Jubilee and Austrian Red Cross decoration)...RegardsChris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 BTW, has this one been ID'd yet?Yes, it is.I have same person another two rows as well. On the picture is single, different period one. Sadly upper ribbon bar is missing - bad bad world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeikoGrusdat Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 here is the complete group again.... the missing rest has been stolen from me two years ago... Timo has got now the three remaining ribbon bars from me and the "buy it first - option" if the other bars will surface again some time to reunite the group again.... Dr.Gerhard Sayffaerth Staatsanwalt and Major im F?hrerhauptquartier, during ww1 commander of a Kraftwagenkolonne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noor Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 (edited) It was amaizing group before two years Edited July 10, 2008 by Noor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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