Family re-united!

[Guest Rick Research]

Which version of Tamara document?

Can you post those?

I find absolutrely NOTHING on the guy.

I have been working from the assumption that he was a Bavarian ("Christmas 1918" medal, gilt instead of issue black) but getting nowhere from that angle.

ANY clues as to his origins, ranks at paperwork issue times and so on would be most welcome.

I can't even imagine how he could have gotten that Marianerkreuz.

[Gerd Becker]

THAT is the Cross of "Simon Petlyura", awarded to "Major Sayffaerth" by the (exiled) Ukrainian government in 1932.

How do I know that? The thing is being sold by Zeige, along with a Russian St. Nikolaus exile order, awarded in 1957 to Major Sayffaerth, ------ and his Tamara (with document)!

Thanks, Chris

[Stogieman]

Heiko, will you chase the additional items from Ziege??

[Mike Dwyer]

Would someone mind letting us less knowledgable people know what medals we're looking at on the two medal bars? I recognize some of them, but many I don't.

Thanks.

Edited November 15, 2006 by Mike Dwyer

[Riley1965]

I'll second that!! I'm familiar with some but definately not 2/3rds of those in this post.

PLEASE,

Doc

[webr55]

Rick Research said:

Which version of Tamara document?

Can you post those?

I find absolutrely NOTHING on the guy.

I have been working from the assumption that he was a Bavarian ("Christmas 1918" medal, gilt instead of issue black) but getting nowhere from that angle.

ANY clues as to his origins, ranks at paperwork issue times and so on would be most welcome.

I can't even imagine how he could have gotten that Marianerkreuz.

According to the documents, he was born in Berlin. There was a publishing house Sayffaerth in Berlin at that time, maybe he was connected to that.

He was Lt dR still in 1920. The 1932 exile-Ukraine doc and the 1957 (!) doc show him as Major. Obviously dR, since he was a state attorney. But he must have been high up in some organisation - maybe SA?

Here is the Tamara doc scan from Zeige:

Edited November 14, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

Here is the 1957 St. Nikolaus doc. He must have been still riding high post-WW2, not uncommon for an attorney.

Edited November 14, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

And finally the Simon Petlyura thing. Heiko, that belongs on your bar!!!

BTW, whoever fiddled with the bar and removed the Simon Petlyura also switched the places of the Tirol and Austrian commemorative medals.

Edited November 14, 2017 by webr55

[HeikoGrusdat]

thank you very much, I have never seen this ukrainian award before!!!

the medal bars show: (in german,sorry...)

1.Eisernes Kreuz 2.Klasse 1914 mit Wiederholungsspange 1939

2.Kriegsverdienstkreuz 1939

3.Kreuz für Kriegshilfsdienst

4.Bayern Militärverdienstorden

5.Hamburg Hanseatenkreuz

6.Frontkämpferehrenkreuz

7.Österreich Ehrenzeichen vom Roten Kreuz 2.Klasse mit Kriegsdekoration

8.Marianerkreuz

9.Österreich Ehrenmedaille vom Roten Kreuz mit Kriegsdekoration

10.Österreich Kriegsdenkmünze

second bar:

1.Freikorps Schlesischer Adler 2.Klasse

2.Tirol Kriegsdenkmünze

3.25 Jahre Treue Dienste

4.Bayern Hochzeitsmedaille 1923

5.Ungarn Kriegsdenkmünze

6. Bulgarien

7.Bulgarien

8.Bulgarien Kriegsdenkmünze

9.Finnland Medaille zur Erinnerung an den Freiheitskrieg

10. Ukraine

11. Türkei RotKreuz Medaille

on the ribbon bars are some more things like the Auszeichnung für Ostvölker, the Tamara or the portugese red cross order

I think he was in 1944 in the Führerhauptquartier as a Major....

Edited January 8 by Dave Danner
fix diacritics

[Guest Rick Research]

What does the REST of that Tamara document look like?

That is not the "Legion" document, 1916/17. Nor is it the GERMAN provisional of 1918 or final of 1919.

[webr55]

What does the REST of that Tamara document look like?

No idea. Zeige does not show more.

[webr55]

I know the Sayffaerth story is sad... but still... this is him after the war.

Quite a weird personality, he called himself "Großmeister of the Order Signum Fidei" and was selling titles to others... I found a story in Der Spiegel 1960 about him: He claimed that the Order Signum Fidei was derived from a count Reinhartsbrunn during the Crusades, whose last descendant was living deep in the Mexican jungle and had supposedly allowed his order to be given away by Sayffaerth....

[Noor]

Thank you webr55 to bring this old threat alive

But surely Sayffaerth group story is same sad as his end... I really hope Heiko have some luck to get his items back. Lets hope!

[HeikoGrusdat]

Where did you find that foto? Very interesting to see some (!!!) of his orders and awards in wear...

[webr55]

Here's the link to the original Spiegel article - with photo:

http://wissen.spiege...pdf&thumb=false

According to this article, he was selling his order at the following prices...

Knight: 1500 marks

Officer: 3000 marks

Commander: 6000 marks

Grand Cross: to be negotiated 

And btw, Huesken is selling all classes of this order... including the award doc to "Grossmeister" Sayffaerth...

Edited November 14, 2017 by webr55

[HeikoGrusdat]

....sometimes history is really crazy !!! :speechless1:

[W PETZ]

Hello,

   I know this is an old thread and the reason I'm posting here was due to my discovering some photos in my extensive photo collection pertaining to Gerhard Friedrich Wolfgang Sayffaerth. I was seeking information on him through another Group website and one of the members pointed me to this forum. I have eight photos of Dr. Major Gerhard Friedrich Wolfgang Sayffaerth. I'm posting three of them here. 

 

[webr55]

Very interesting! The ribbon bar in the second/third photo is the one shown here by Heiko as #2. It is the earliest of the three. 

[gjw]

Great post!!!  Congrats!

[W PETZ]

8 hours ago, W PETZ said:

In an earlier posting it was mentioned that he must have been high up in some organization - Maybe SA.  Dr. Major Sayffaerth was in fact a member of the SA and I do have a photo of him wearing a ribbon bar in SA Uniform. His connections to the Party could also explain why he was assigned to the Führerhauptquartier.

 

Hello,

   I know this is an old thread and the reason I'm posting here was due to my discovering some photos in my extensive photo collection pertaining to Gerhard Friedrich Wolfgang Sayffaerth. I was seeking information on him through another Group website and one of the members pointed me to this forum. I have eight photos of Dr. Major Gerhard Friedrich Wolfgang Sayffaerth. I'm posting three of them here. 

 

 

Here is Dr Sayffaerth in SA Uniform

Edited January 8 by W PETZ

[W PETZ]

I read in several places that there is a sad story or sad ending to Dr. Sayffaerth but no details Can someone briefly explain what happened to him

[Bernd_W]

He became an award dealer, but not in the Weitze way.

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ritterschlag-auf-raten-a-1dad7a90-0002-0001-0000-000043065533

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/lametta-auf-raten-a-c9a303b4-0002-0001-0000-000043065640

 

Untranslatable by Browser, but with pictures.

Its the report from the first link above from 26.04.1960:

https://magazin.spiegel.de/EpubDelivery/spiegel/pdf/43065533

Edited January 8 by Bernd_W

[W PETZ]

I think it was a little bit more than becoming a dealer.  He apparently had delusions of grandeur which was a trait in Party membership during the war. Thinking he could sell made up titles and awards during post war just shows how crazy history was during that period in time.

Edited January 8 by W PETZ

[VtwinVince]

LOL, that is pretty funny, he should have teamed up with that Princess von Anhalt who engaged in similar nonsense.