Mongolia The Mongolian Signature Sleuth........

fjcp · February 23, 2007

I hope Chris doesn't mind me using his thread title. It's a good title, so credit goes where it should.

I've been thumbing through my docs for a while now wondering who all these people where and what they did.

We all know Tsedenbal and Choibalsan but what about the "little" guys?

I've decided to start with a fellow that signed countless documents, has a cool name and even cooler looks!

Gonchighiyin Bumtsend.

From wikipedia:

"Gonchigiyn Bumtsend, also Gonchighiyin Bumatsenda (September 11, 1881-September 23, 1953) was Chairman of the People's Great Hural of Mongolia and there by head of state of that country from July 1951 until his death.

Having participated in the 1921 revolution that established the Mongolian People's Republic, Gonchigiyn Bumtsend was chosen to serve as chairman of the Presidium of the Lower Hural in 1940. He became a member of the country's Politburo three years later, in 1943 and chairman of the Great Hural eight years later. It was an honorary role, with power residing in the hands of the prime minister, Horloogiyn Choybalsan"

Here is Bumtsend standing next to Choibalsan, both looking very happy.

I hope Dr.B doesn't mind me using his pic from his book..

Edited February 23, 2007 by fjcp

fjcp · February 23, 2007

I have found two of his signatures, one in Uighur and the other in cyrillic.

This first one is from my 1943 PS2 doc discussed in the PS thread,

and the second signature one is from one of Ed's documents from the "docs. a go-go" thread.

Hope you don't mind Ed?

Ed_Haynes · February 23, 2007

This is the start of what will be a GREAT thread and powerful reference tool.

Thanks, JC! :beer:

Pinning this one!

fjcp · February 23, 2007

Glad you like it Ed.

I'm going to start off easy and work my way to the much harder to read Uighur ones.

I will be needing help though, and so discussions will no doubt be needed.

Next up is Jamtsarangiyn Sambuu.

It appears he held the same positions as Bumtsend from 7 July 1954 until the 20th of May 1972.

I've only encountered his signature in Cyrillic, but I hope a Uighur one is out there somewhere.

He was born in 1895 so there is no reason why there wouldn't be one somewhere....

Fingers crossed.

Anyway here is the man and his signature.

Edited February 23, 2007 by fjcp

fjcp · February 28, 2007

Here is one I didn't expect to find. It's the signature of Sukhbaatar's widow, S?hbaataryn Yanjmaa.

This has to be one of the hardest to find. I'm guessing she would only have been in a position to sign award docs. as the acting head of state between 23rd of September 1953 and the 7th July 1954.

Since this is from your Suugiyn Gombo group, could you confirm that this would be a possible date for the booklet?

Anyway here are the relevant bits.

Enjoy.

From Wikipedia again:

"S?hbaataryn Yanjmaa (mongol. Сүхбаатарын Янжмаа; born Nemendeyen Yanjmaa Нэмэндэён Янжмаа; 1893 - 1963) was a Mongolian politician.

S?hbaataryn Yanjmaa served on the politburo of the People's Revolutionary Party from 1940 until 1954, and was Secretary of the party's Central Committee from 1941 until 1947. She was a member of the Presidium of the Little Hural (the executive committee of the Great Hural, or Parliament) from 1940 to 1950, and of the Great Hural from 1950 to 1962. Following the death of Gonchigiyn Bumtsend, she served as acting President of Mongolia for the transitional period, lasting from 23 September 1953 until 7 July 1954.

This made her the first woman in the role of head of state of a country, at least provisionally. The first woman to take this role formally as well was Isabel Mart?nez de Per?n in Argentinia in 1974. The first one based on a popular election was Vigd?s Finnbogad?ttir in Iceland in 1980.

S?hbaataryn Yanjmaa was the widow of Damdin S?hbaatar, considered a military hero of Mongolia, who died in 1923 at the age of 30. In place of her father's name Nemedeyen, as normally the case in Mongolia, she adopted the name of her former husband after his death."

Here are two pictures of the lady, one from when she was very young and the second will no doubt be familiar to you all.

Her signature is the one on the top, I've been trying to ID the other signature that I've seen a few times now but no luck yet.

What I can make of it it says "Bayar" but that's about it... I can't seem to find anybody that would fit that name but perhaps I'm just not looking in the right places....

Anyway More to come later....

JC

Vatjan · March 1, 2007

This is very intersting, I'll be checking my days for more mystery signatures.

Keep up the good work JC

Thanks

Jan

Ed_Haynes · March 10, 2007

We all know Gotov, though unfortunately I don't have his signature here to scan (can someone add?) and we all know his picture from Battushig's book.

Ed_Haynes · March 10, 2007

He signed documents from 1964-90, so his signature is pretty common.

I mention him here, even though I don't have a signature at hand to show, because I had the real honor to have lunch with him yesterday at his grandson's apartment.

Stogieman · March 10, 2007

:jumping: :cheers: :beer:

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

fjcp · March 15, 2007

It was hard to find a clear signature, but here is a pretty good one.. From one of Ed's lovely docs

Chris Boonzaier · March 16, 2007

He signed documents from 1964-90, so his signature is pretty common.
I mention him here, even though I don't have a signature at hand to show, because I had the real honor to have lunch with him yesterday at his grandson's apartment.

Hi Ed...

I dont care how many docs he signed...tell the old guy to loose the red jacket, its like soooooo 90's like.... :rolleyes:

Ed_Haynes · March 16, 2007

Hi Ed...
I dont care how many docs he signed...tell the old guy to loose the red jacket, its like soooooo 90's like....

Hey, it is warm(ish) - today's high -3 C (currently -25).

Vatjan · November 19, 2007

Ok, Finally got my docs out and made pictures of the signatures.

Do I understand it correctly that there are usually 2 signatures on one doc?

So let's precise TOP and BOTTOM, as to make sure we're all talking about the same thing here.

Do we actually know who signed these docs: TOP president and BOTTOM Defence Minister?

Jan

So this one is Gonchigiyn Bumtsend on the left.

Is that a second signature next to his?

PS: Will add relevant dates later.